PCC Rifles ? Experienced owner's / shooter's impressions?

My opinion is, just buy an AR type crabine in 5.56. The penetration through walls is similar, but the effectiveness at stopping an attacker is far higher with a 5.56 than a 9mm PCC. It is also an exponentially more robust market of parts, upgrades, accessories, other guns, etc.

I cannot imagine why, for example, I would step down from my 14.5" pinned/welded AR in 5.56 to a 9mm in a similar footprint.

AR type rifles in 5.56 absolutely dominate the world for good reason

I mean…find a military, military unit, law enforcement agency, SWAT team, gun SME, whatever, that uses or recommends a 9mm PCC over a 5.56 for home defense or high risk stops or residential entries or room clearing or anything…you’ll be hard pressed to find one amidst the entire world using an intermediate cartridge carbine/rifle for damn near everything.

The AR type rifle or similar is just that damn good


Red dots are easier with something you can shoulder, for sure. To me it’s the same as with irons…to get that perfect sight picture quickly and consistently. You don’t have an aid to line your eye up like with a long gun. However, there’s no reason one couldn’t be as fast with a handgun as with a rifle, outside of practice. A lot of people used to, and still do, think lpvo’s are slower than red dots, but there are people out there proving that wrong, all day every day.

Im with you here. Most of the time, if i had to go outside, I would likely do the same.


If you have the muscle memory to line up irons on a pistol, you can see the red dot. Much like on a rifle.

Have you ever put a carbine/rifle on the clock vs your pistol? I ask because it takes a lot more pistol practice than rifle to hit the same standards…and that’s not even accounting for the tremendous difference in ability to stop the threat ASAP provided by the exponentially superior terminal ballistics of the rifle

As long as you train enough to be intimately familiar with whatever safety you have to interact with on the rifle…it’s IMO and IME quite easy to get a rifle to out perform a pistol without spending nearly as much time


Idk about that one, brother…at 400, 223 is still carrying ~2.25x the velocity, and 2.5x the energy. Not only that but he was talking about 9mm HST’s, and in most cases, 5.56 and 223 are fmj or tiny hp. HST’s would stop a lot faster, I would think… 5.56 has it’s uses, but imo, for
the purpose of sd and not possibly being charged for collateral damage, congested areas where over penetration has higher probability of creating collateral damage isn’t one. At least when compared to the 9mm cartridge. The soldier probably doesn’t care about the 18 walls the bullet went through after hitting the dude shooting back at them, and in the moment I probably wouldn’t either. After you find out your apartment neighbor’s memaw caught that round with her eye socket, that’s a different story.

This is true, and any part of an ar platform can be changed in a relatively short amount of time.
I agree that 5.56 is a superior round in most cases, but everything has an arena it is more ideal for than something else…otherwise, why not skip the pellet guns, and get a .50?

That’s exactly why 5.56 doesn’t penetrate walls much differently…high energy, low weight, low momentum. It dumps its energy quickly

This is very well documented. 5.56 being significantly more dangerous through walls than pistol ammo is one of the most common myths out there in the gun world


I’m fairly fast with a pistol but believe rifles have an advantage since at least for me and I suspect most people it is easier to control the recoil and hold them steady especially for longer shots but probably even for shots under 10 yards. With a PCC I suspect recoil would be almost non existent.

If we are talking within just a couple feet there are situations where the pistol could have the advantage because they would be quicker to maneuver and shoot from the hip in a really tight space.

@Nathan57 I haven’t timed myself very often with a rifle aside from testing to figure out I can get an accurate first shot on target quicker from low ready with a rifle than I can drawing my pistol from a holster and getting a reasonably accurate shot off. Even though I practice way more with the pistol.


Another factor for me personally was my wife. My FPC is lighter and easier to wield for her than my AR carbine in 5.56. The FPC has much less blast, flash, and sound than my AR. For her, at this point in her life, she will be much more effective in a fight with the FPC versus one of her handguns.

All things being equal, my primary home defense weapon is my AR carbine in 5.56. Still, the FPC is set up quite well for the same mission.

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That is a fitting use case. Have you considered a short barrel 5.56 with a small suppressor? $ though.

When you say FPC, do you mean PCC? Pistol Caliber Carbine?

Have either of you tried a 13.9" pinned and welded lightweight profile 5.56?

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No sir, just cost prohibitive regarding a suppressor. Maybe one day. And yes sir, The Smith FPC, PCC. 9mm.

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Well…obviously…but do I need to take out a protection order before I buy one or are you going to come here to explain the reasons I “NEED” an FPC?

Actually, Kel-Tec has3 a hinged optic mount that lets you keep your optic in place. Works great!!!

I just purchased a Henry Homesteader. I opted for the Glock magazine adapter option. My only negative about it is that the foregrip appears to be made out if plastic, not walnut as you would expect from Henry USA. I figure if this is an issue the aftermarket will address it.

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Clint Smith’s wisdom is that people should not mess around with PCCs. Buy a rifle rather than try to make a half-a-rifle with a PCC. Any rifle cartridge will have better terminal ballistics than any PCC.


Some are going to view this as semantics, but there is a difference between penetration (The ability to enter) and perforation (The ability to pass through). Handgun cartridges perforate due to mass, not velocity, in soft materials, IE lumber and drywall. due to the lack of mass, .223 dumps energy in soft targets (organic materials, flesh, wood, etc) that have relative moisture content extremely fast. Just as velocity is the easier to manipulate number to gain energy, it’s the same going down in the energy equation. This is why quite often 5.56 exits the body as broken apart shrapnel where a 9mm HST will just flower and retain its mass through the entire wound track. This is pretty much case in point why most police departments don’t even bother issuing officers submachineguns like the mp5 anymore. I have been curious to see how the leigh defense external hollow points would work at higher velocities out of longer barrel subguns, or maybe a bit more twist rate to chase putting more rotational energy into the round similar to what Q did with the 8.6blackout round


I have a gen1 Keltec Sub2000 and the S&W FPC both in 9mm. I have both zeroed at 25 yards. The FPC has a Romeo red dot and I have a hand size grouping shooting unsupported at 25. It also has comes with 3 mags (1 17rd and 2 23rd mags) and stores 2 mags in the butt stock.

The Sub2k shoots well but, as others said, the way it folds is wonky and optics have to be mounted using an adapter that swings away to fold and store. Nice thing about the keltec is that it uses Glock mags 15 or more capacity.

That said, the Gen 3 Sub 2k seems to twist so the optics issue may be resolved.

Both are a hair over 16 inches folded and can be stored and carried in small backpacks.

I like the keltec. I love the FPC.

Beyond the folding PCCs, there are many others that are operate very well. If you don’t like a regular brand, you can also do your own build.


Hello and welcome @William1056

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My Mrs would also agree. Have had no problems other than the knock off Glock mag. Factory works great.


CMMG Banshee 45 ACP with silencer is what I have, and I love it!!! :heart_eyes:


@TheKid :sunglasses:

my UMP clone SBR