I agree with you. Since when are we not free from unlawful search? The Man was shot in his own home. For all we know, he perceived the Officer as a burglar or trespasser. And yet on these forums, how many times do we hear from the “I’d blast any intruder that entered my house” crowd?
Stay safe.
I’ve assumed that we’re all looking at the same video footage (with or without the distracting over-narrative of the original post). But maybe not.
I saw an immediate stop upon contact with a live occupant in the house. I saw an immediate switch from flashlight to weapon and withdrawal to concealment upon recognition that the occupant was armed. I saw that followed by continuous efforts to verbally connect with and de-escalate the advancing armed subject, interspersed with a rapid sequence of radio calls to provide, supplement, and step up reinforcement, while continually withdrawing to cover until stalled by a dead end. Meanwhile, the armed occupant continues to advance, with vague aggressive mutterings and demands, until reaching the doorway at the stuck deputy. In the version I watched, the subject was fogged over at the actual moment of shooting. Based on the muzzle intermittently peeking around the corner of the doorway, I have presumed that the deputy was ultimately faced with the occupant presenting a handgun at close range — but maybe something else is under the obscured part. I never saw a step of advance from the deputy after the occupant was located, and never heard a word from the deputy which was not de-escalatory in tone and content.
I really don’t get what you mean by “back down, back off, and de-escalate” that this officer did not attempt the entire time following contact with the occupant to the point of shooting.
Back down an open stairwell a couple yards from a threatening armed person? No. That’s potential suicide and/or the shooting would happen sooner, not later. That’s a tactical error I would not support.
Close the door to the retreat room (if there was one), and hope that fairies would come and take this guy peacefully? I think that would be failing a duty to protect. I’d probably accept that decision, but I wouldn’t respect or require it.
Out the window of the retreat room (if there was one), and hope to not be shot while waiting for EMS? Maybe. I would not require that choice without being there.
Retreat right instead of left? That’s a crapshoot in a house partly seen just one time. Maybe there were better retreat options in another direction (secret staircase with an armored and locked door at the upper landing?). I can’t see that requiring some other retreat choice in a maze of halls and doors is reasonable. I expect that a right-handed officer would be inclined to hug a left wall, and retreat to the first turn left into better cover or concealment — and that’s exactly what I observed.
Surrender to the armed threat and hope it all worked out well; or try to grapple a gun by hand or with less-lethal? That officer would be a TV hero, but not a smart one.
I don’t know how this outcome is unfolding now. Maybe given the chance to do it again, the deputy would take the suicide stairs or the 2nd floor window. I hope not.
We can differ in our assessments and conclusions about how this event did or should have unfolded, but I observed no defects in the deputy’s decisions or actions — and I don’t expect SOPs across the land to routinely start sending multiple officers to an unremarkable welfare check; for individual officers to be directed to hold until a “boarding party” is available to execute such a check; nor require uncovered retreat from armed threats. Again, I hope not.
Honestly, you don’t know that. What were her options when she is in a corner with a gun pointed at her?
She was univited and shot an 88 yo home owner WHO HAD EVERY RIGHT TO BE ARMED IN HIS OWN HOME.
Read what another LEO has to say on the subject before you judge me… check out @Frank73 …
I’m finished armchair quarterbacking. I simply gave my opinion.
What followed were 3rd and 4th string quarterbacks and a few word salads that make one’s head swim. I’m retired. I know what I would have done and it isn’t what she did.
She shot a Man in his own home over an alleged “welfare check”.
If you folks are good with this, I don’t know what to tell you.
Keep giving up your right to protections against an unlawful search “for your own good and welfare” (welfare check). Inch by inch you will erode the rights of all eventually if you actually support what happened.
I’m muting this topic. Merry Christmas to all, please stay safe out there.
@Frank73,
I’m ok with your opinion brother because you call it like it is, you are impartial and have no bias, same as I. If an LEO is wrong we say it and if he’s right we back them. There are a lot of trolls and cop haters here. The cop could’ve done everything right but they still find something wrong. Maybe if people would comply these things would not happen.
And that’s the key. 88 or 38, LEO tells you to drop your gun, you drop the gun!
There are literally 1000s videos on youtube of cops violating (or attempting to violate) people’s rights with the words “just comply”. Now REMEMBER, I am former LEO-- people don’t have to comply with unlawful actions of the police. If one is walking down the road and a cops says give me id or go to jail-- that is NOT lawful, but 90% of LEOs do it… or " you have to do as i tell you"— that’s BS, but 90% of LEOs do it. And then people like you go on a site like this and call people who are critical of police actions trolls and cop haters. Well, Johnny, you show your thin blue line bias— that’s why cops can get away with murder and other heinous crimes. There is more than 3 BILLION dollars paid out by TAXPAYERS because of officer misconduct each year (and this sheriff will be paying out millions to the family of the INNOCENT home owner). If an officer came into my home uninvited and told me to drop my firearm I’d drop it… because I know they’d shoot me with no qualms-- guilty or not. … and then I’d start the process of getting rich. MOST people cannot afford and attorney and that is what the police hope for and why they are not afraid to do unspeakable things to innocent people.
Qualified immunity needs to end because of cops with your attitude. If officers had to get their own liability insurance the bad cops would be rooted out, but cops, like you, would lament that "we’re losing a lot of “good officers” because of no qualified immunity.
Thanks for your PROFESSIONAL input.
I am not a cop anymore @Elza1. I considered myself one of the good guys while I was on the job. But I do not have to defend myself. My record speaks for itself. 20 years and never fired my weapon unless at the range for qualification. I had to draw my weapon on several occasions but never fired my weapon at anyone.
This is exactly what I was saying and I agree with you 100 percent. Complying and dropping your gun would be doing the right thing and if LEO is wrong you will be rich.
How about, “DROP YOUR GUN” - “OK I Dropped it” - “I’m here to check on you, are you alright?” - “Yep, a bit scared, there’s a gal with a gun in my house.” - “Understood sir, is there anything I can do for you?” - “Aaa Yea, put your gun away.” - “OK sir you have a nice day…”
In the story I posted above, there were two officers reponding, but one still died, as they were entering the home. They were called due to an alarm that went off. They then attempted to enter the home when the homeowner fired on them.
This tread has turned into a hatefest against those who disagree with the killing of an 88 year old man in his own home. Even @Frank73, a retired officer, is under attack for giving his professional opinion.
The Woke people on this site are no better than the gun grabbers. If you dare disagree with them you are a troll, or cop hater. Is it any wonder that the 1st Amendment is under attack even more than the 2nd, and that by people who should know better.
It’s still far away from the hate.
It’s a typical discussion when two sides have good arguments to support their thoughts.
Some disagree with the killing of an 88 year old man in his own home, others disagree with self defense action of LEO being threatened with deadly weapon during her lawful visit at man’s house.
MOST people cannot afford an attorney and that is what the police hope for and why they are not afraid to do unspeakable things to innocent people.
I can afford and attorney---- NOW. but how about those much younger than me-- they cannot afford an attorney and if they are the wrong color or nationality they cannot get free help.
This incident happened yesterday when an officer responded to a home to do a welfare check on an elderly person.
Thoughts on this incident and discussion.
