Uuummmmm just out of curiosity doesn’t the Governent already have a record of all my guns when I fill out the paperwork to buy them? I would never post pictures of my weapons on social media but the Government knows what I have. They don’t need Failbook or Google to tell them.
2 Likes
Technically they are not supposed to. The 4473 is supposed to be kept with the FFL. However the ATF has been recording them and photographing them. When a gun store closes the forms can be confiscated by the ATF. Also the gun store has no reason to keep the 4473’s 20 years after a firearm has been bought. Some states do however have registration and the records are supposed to be kept in state offices. More than likely none of this has been done. The house has had hearings on the ATF’s records since they should not have them, the ATF was actually ordered to destroy them, but I doubt that has happened.
2 Likes
The ATF has a fully searchable database with over 1,000,000,000 records (One Billion), for those who don’t like all those zeros) in it.
GOA and FPC have current litigation pending and a couple of other pro 2A organizations that I belong to check in periodically with our elected members of Congress. But with the unfettered power of the DOJ refusing to intervene thus far, the ATF still has it.
My true unvarnished belief is the bells been rung and even if it were to be destroyed, politically speaking, the anti gun crowd will find a way to do it through Social Media, since we have seen how much the Federal Government has unduly influenced some companies.
3 Likes
partially true. When a gunstore closes all 4473’s, A&D books, loss or theft reports, etc etc. go to the ATF’s NTC unless the business is sold to a new owner and the new owner wishes to maintain the former FFL’s records. This rarely happens as new owners dont want the hassle of maintaining paperwork logs that werent their own. While yes, the ATF has a massive pile of 4473s in the NTC due to this, its an insane amount of records, and the ATF is not allowed to digitize them per federal law, making trying to do a records search in those records next to impossible. The warehouse these are housed in are GINORMOUS .
2 Likes
Why can I see them doing it anyway, they act like they are above the law.
3 Likes
if they had the manpower I’m sure they would love too. ATF NTC receives over a million old records per month from closing FFLs. I don’t think people truly understand the insurmountable number of records this is that ATF has to deal with on a daily basis. Some of the records are so old at this point in storage they are horribly damaged or unreadable as well. There was an article a while back about how the ATF was complaining they still had to legally maintain records that are not even legible at this point.
minor edit for my fingers outrunning my brian lol
4 Likes
That would be job security for sure.
2 Likes
They wouldn’t love to do it. They have. Their exists a fully digitized database with over a Billion records in it, that are fully searchable. That is why 2 of the currently most active organizations in the Pro- 2A spaces have current and pending litigation against the ATF and the Biden administration. The existence of that database is well known and being added to.
4 Likes
The ATF didn’t digitize them. FFL’s have had the option to maintain digital records for years now to do away with paper A&D books and to not have to store file cabinets upon file cabinets of 4473s that are decades old. Those digital records that were created by the FFL’s are sent to ATF at close of business just like the paper records are. You email them directly to the NTC instead of having to ship all that ■■■■ to NTC or to hand deliver it to your local field office. Now, if the database is searchable that’s a whole nother issue and that isn’t supposed to be doable.
im well aware of the case you speak of from GOA.
ATF Has Nearly 1 BILLION Records in a Registry | GOA (gunowners.org)
1 Like
Sportsman POS Software & eCommerce | Celerant
companies like celerant and fastbound are very popular for this.
1 Like
The database, like any database is searchable. Technology has just made it easier. The ATF has agents entering information into this database and it is an ongoing enterprise.
2 Likes
I really hate this trend of online stuff. Databases are hackable.
Yes, I know this was a movie, but not to far off from reality, now made available everywhere courtesy of database hacking:
1 Like
Screw Facebook and both google.
3 Likes
I am fortunate to have been born in & have retired in the great state of Texas. Nobody is coming for my guns. There is no “gun registration” here. I don’t participate in social media. It’s just a cesspool of misinformation & lies. I have a few gun forums that I am active on & I post a firearm if I am explaining an issue. Sometimes I blur the serial number but I have posted, at times, without bluring. It doesn’t give me any concern.
5 Likes
Speaking of VIN…
New car technology scares me.
What do they now know about us all that they couldn’t know 20 years ago (older cars).
1 Like
I think it’s crazy as it relates to new cars that have the “black box” onboard. It’s tracks your speed, distances, acceleration and compares it against a mapping program that has the set speed limits on all the roads you drive on which can be used against you in court as evidence of illegal driving. It can be turned off. But they say if it remains on, the benefits are: location of the vehicle in case it’s stolen etc. They try to ploy to the fears and leave out the entrapment.
Same with guns. If they know what you have and they know your serial number, who’s to say that they won’t somehow use that info for some ATF regulation (that isn’t the law), and try and take guns from civilians.
1 Like
Ruger9 they take the serial number of the firearm off the iPhone ?? Here’s a root beer 
sir thank you for your service sir
1 Like
Dude, the microphone for your car can be operated remotely. Your bluetooth connected phone can be hacked remotely. It goes way deeper than tracking your speed. You opt in to their use of your equipment when you purchase the vehicle.
1 Like