National Constitutional Carry Reciprocity issues

Legal & Second Amendment Reciprocity
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Until many states adopted “Constitutional” Permit-less carry (about 29 now), all required their versions of a CCW. That’s about 3/5ths (60%) of the states already. We have the best chance that we ever had to see this pass into law. It’s out of committee, and up for the full floor vote next.

For those w/o a permit who carry it’s required that you also have in your possession “acceptable” photo ID, typically your state’s DMV issued DL, or non-driver identification.

If a National Constitutional Permit-less Carry act bill is enacted, I have no doubt that some form of nationally “acceptable” photo ID will be required to be on any person carrying a firearm.

If you don’t already possess such an item, and this becomes the law of the land, there will be a backlog rush for all who need to obtain it.

Coincidentally with a REAL ID being required to pass a TSA security checkpoint to fly domestically May 7, 2025.

Why not if this may also be the standard requirement to National Constitutional Carry equivalent to a CCW.

One must be a citizen both for REAL ID, and to possess, and carry a firearm.

This would be a common sense proof of meeting that requirement.

There is a laundry list of documents / proofs that you need to get a real id including birth certificates, and marriage certificates to prove name changes, and they have to be acceptable, raised, or micro printed multi colored tamper evident seals that take time to acquire, these agencies may not be all that timely in responding to your requests for what you need, when you need it.

So, now might be a good time to anticipate this requirement, and get your ducks :duck: :duck: :duck: in a row.

It’s a process, you don’t want to be sent packing for what you are lacking.

Get their checklist, and start accumulating what you need to have a successful visit to your DMV.

If Constitutional Carry becomes law, REAL ID might be your new CCW equivalent permit.

If stopped by any LEO anywhere, they want to know who they are dealing with, and if you are a wanted fugitive, or felon, or good to go.

If carrying a firearm, are you a prohibited :prohibited: person, are you even a citizen?

With REAL ID they can verify everything that they want to know about you, and if no issues, let you go.

Without that, they might take you to their station to verify your identity, and legality to possess a firearm.

As part of being responsible protectors why not make that whole process easier, and save yourself any delays.

If they make having an ID a requirement, and you don’t have it, they might just confiscate your firearm, and even if they clear you, make you jump through hoops to get it back, and pay fees, or fines.

Remember there are states that are not going to like losing their revenue sources, or control, and like nothing better than torture us just for being 2A gunners.

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Wouldn’t that type of ID be just a different kind of registry?

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REAL ID

Travel
CCW
All others that require a photo ID

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No. It’s just your usual REAL ID DL, I have had one for about two decades, and it’s only tied to DMV, also Military IDs for decades, and a Passport book and card which are all REAL IDs acceptable by TSA for domestic flight travel as well as their particular purposes, DL, military, international flight.

None are tied to anything to do with 2A, except that coincidentally any LEO can use any of those items like my DL in a traffic stop to verify my identification, and if I have any wants or warrants outstanding for anything criminal via NCIC as they can do now anywhere on anybody.

Only your CCW ties you to being a firearm carrier.

The idea of having ID on you while carrying is so that Law enforcement can check if you are legal to carry the same as they can check if you are legal to drive.

it you don’t have that ID, who are you?

How do they verify if you are legally in possession of that firearm.

Even under constitutional carry they have to be able to verify that.

Under current Resiprocity laws you might have to provide your home state CCW to be allowed to carry in an other state.

Your REAL ID is only for identification purposes, not your state’s permission to carry; that part is just to prove that you are not a prohibited :prohibited: person.

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For all the people who have their passport books or passport cards they are in the clear. Same goes for people who already have a REAL ID card. It would eliminate having to carry multiple CCWs. I just hope congress dont end up catering to the bs restrictions that cali, ny, or nj try to conjure up

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Not really. I have REAL ID and it’s basically a fancy drivers license with additional “perks”. I suppose “they” could screw with the requirements in some sort of a registration scheme but some states already do that so I’m not worried about it at this point.

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Exactly!

After the 9/11/2001 terror attacks were facilitated by fraudulently obtained drivers licenses to get on the four airline jets that they highjacked to use as Kamikaze fuel bombs to “take out” their target buildings like the World Trade Towers and Pentagon. Subsequent legislation was passed called the (WHTI) Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative that set forth all the REAL ID documentation requirements to obtain any travel documents: DLs, IDs issued by DMVs, Passport books and cards by the State Department. (DIBIDS) Defense Biometric Identification System by the Military for their IDs.

I knew nothing about it when it was launched decades ago only to be repeatedly postponed from full implementation.

But, I made it my business to “learn-up” on that topic, and find out all I could.

Part of all NCO Academies is getting information about any and everything that affects your career, and how you operate.

Travel is a frequent part of being military, we do it a lot, so anything impacting that was a must know subject, and personal responsibility.

There is a national standard set by the Department of Homeland Security, each state DMV has to conform to the same standards therefore there was a big pushback outcry about this being a “National Identity Card.”

I was only aware of the standard driver licenses with basic information like your name and date of birth that any LEO could already run a NCIC check on you during any traffic stop.

Being in the military I always had a “National Identification Card” on my person already.

Being on short notice worldwide deployability I already had a passport, not to enter other countries, while being transported militarily on orders, but it was required while on personal leave travel when not traveling for Uncle Sam.

The blue covers (P) personal passport was required for individual travel as a private citizen.

There are other types of passports: (D) Diplomatic black covers. And, the burgundy reddish-brown covers (O) official passports for other than official state department business, like those in the military traveling on official business, and any other government entity like NOAA, NASA, you name it, everything else.

Being a Senior Sergeant Medic came with responsibilities including being able to transport unit equipment and personnel.

Having civilian, and military drivers licenses were a requirement, having all other types of travel documents were a requirement. I have had a full variety for over half a century. So, needing any bit of it for National Constitutional Resiprocity is not a problem for me physically, or conceptually. Whatever makes it work.

But, we don’t all have the same shared experiences.

With the implementation of requiring REAL ID to travel domestically being postponed for two decades, not everybody has bothered to get it.

Now with the coincidence of it finally being required, and the possibility of needing it also for Constitutional Resiprocity in place of individual state CCW permits so that LEOs can verify that you are not a prohibited :prohibited: person from carrying.

This might dovetail with that nicely satisfying that also even if you don’t ever plan to fly.

But, other forms of transportation including ground, buses and trains, vehicles rentals have been requiring it also.

It expands your options from being restricted otherwise.

I have lived with it all my adult life without any problems.

I suppose that if I were a wanted criminal it would cramp my style, but that’s never been an issue for me.

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I don’t disagree with you on the Real ID thing BUT, to me, this all sounds suspiciously like..

“Show me your papers comrade! You have no papers? Now this is a problem, you’re coming with us…”.

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It’s the same as having a driver’s license, no LEO encounters and no show required, vote, buy something with an age requirement, and show it.

Travel and show it.

Have a critical incident where you have to use your EDC and law enforcement gets involved show it.

Minding your own business not attracting the law, no problems.

It’s nothing to be paranoid about.

The last time I flew in September of 2021 I had to show it to my airline and TSA.

The last time that I entered an Army post to use a post exchange I had to show my ID at the gate and a cashiers checkout.

When I moved to Tennessee from out of state to convert my DL to theirs I had to surrender my out of state DL.

Getting established with all new medical here I had to show it and my insurance everywhere.

It comes in handy, I have yet to be hassled for it unreasonably.

Usually, I have to initiate the action that requires showing it for something that I want to do, like opening a bank account, getting a mortgage to buy a house, file a deed with county clerk, nobody is chasing me down demanding it, not even the police, I cannot remember the last time that I did anything to get pulled over.

Be suspicious if you must, but to me it’s just a tool like a house key to get access to what I want. Without it I could do or get none of the above.

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Your not supposed to be a prohibited person in possession of a firearm, that’s what CCW permits are all about, with dropping state restrictions and their CCWs, for example during interstate travel and a traffic stop, if the issue of legally having a firearm comes up and you don’t have any ID. How do you expect that to work out?

I would rather have an ID that the LEO can run his NCIC check with there than have to go to the station to have my identity verified and that I am not a prohibited person in possession of a firearm illegally. As responsible protectors it’s what we are prepared to do. Like proving that you are a licensed driver when you have to.

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You really shouldn’t be driving if you don’t have any ID.

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One other point about REAL ID DLs, is the “motor voter” registration to vote at the same time you get your DL.

You have to show all the same proofs of legal presence in the USA, legal residency, birth certificate, supporting documents of any name changes, etc. One stop shopping does it all.

Tennessee is #1 in the country for voting Integrity.

Tennessee requires new residents from out of state to convert their driver licenses to Tennessee DLs within 30 days, and to surrender your out of state DL as only one DL is allowed.

We went from REAL ID out of state to REAL ID Tennessee DLs, and did our voter registrations at the same time.

All the same information was entered into both systems.

You are required to show your DL when reporting to your polling station to gain entrance, then approach a DMV type window, or desk where your DL is scanned, and your voter eligibility is verified before entering the area where the voting machines are to cast your ballot.

I/we don’t have any problem with any of that.

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According to the U.S. Constitution we have the right to keep and bear arms. There are no arguable ifs, and, or buts about it. If someone says that they have the authority to to argue against our Constitution then that person is lying.

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I agree with you.

I think that the Supreme Court missed the boat in not asserting the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution over the first and all the states’ unconstitutional restrictions infringing on our 2A RTKBA.

The 2A is short and sweet, to the point.

The Constitution is clear: It says what it says, and it doesn’t say what it doesn’t say.

No wiggle room for misinterpretation.

I can also see where we don’t want fugitives and felons to have guns to facilitate their crimes like armed robbery, etc.

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ya… thing is they’ve been lying and disarming us since NY disarmed their citizens…

IIRC it was kinda an Irish thing at the time…???

and the gangs running amok didn’t help things…

seems the gangs are doing so again though… hmmm…

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:+1:Exactly!

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Exactly! Driving, and / or carrying…

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I know two ass holes in Illinois are going to fight reciprocity. turbin durbin and duckworthless. got a letter from each. because Illinois requires a 16 hour class and range time to qualify for CCW and other states do not require you to prove that you can somewhat handle a weapon.

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Yes. Tennessee still has a two tier CCW permit system that they call HCP & EHCP for Handgun Carry Permit and its Enhanced version that requires in person range training qualification and a higher fee than the standard version. Both, require passing State Police Criminal Background Checks with fingerprints.

You may carry open, or concealed in TN regardless of version of their HCP/EHCP, or Permitless Carry.

The requirements for not being a prohibited person are the same.

Basically, not being a criminal, a citizen of lawful age, much the same as everywhere else.

So, why not nationally also?

Additionally, July 1, 2021 Tennessee also became a “Constitutional” Permitless Carry state also, one of about 29 currently, that’s almost 3/5ths = 60%.

Tennessee honors 48 other states’ CCW for Resiprocity but, is only honored by 37 other states.

National Constitutional Carry Reciprocity Act bill passage would open up all states, and territories to Permitless Carry, and do away with individual state permits. We are almost 60% there now. We just need to get the remaining states onboard.

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In prison one gets a Facility Inmate ID Card.