I always thought we live to close together. Now this confirms it.
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Understood! I am skeptical about the use of the phrase “cleaning my gun” as an excuse for shear stupidity causing the gun to go off.
Only an idiot starts cleaning a gun before clearing and checking thoroughly.
Most instructions start with “NO LIVE AMMO IN THE ROOM”
The fools give the responsible among us a bad name.
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How does mandatory training prevent someone doing something negligently? We frequently read about the police and all of their negligent discharges - they are supposedly the “only ones” and are thought to be trained in the use and safety of firearms. Now think about driver training. How many car crashes and deaths related to them do we have each year? No, mandatory training is not the solution. It only disenfranchises the poor from firearm ownership, as they will be priced out of being able to afford it. Also, in states that have mandatory training, costs of training and required number of hours of said training always increase. “Gun control” in any form is not the solution to any issues surrounding criminal uses of firearms nor in the prevention of negligent discharges. The only real “gun control” we have is what we get from the matter between our two ears.
Edit: This is a commentary I just read on Ammoland about mandatory training.
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What specifics do you have in mind? Something beyond the Four Basic Rules?
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@Dave17 Amen. How much simpler can the 4 basic gun safety rules can you get? And making it “mandatory” means one thing … more gubment intervention. Nope, nope, and nope. Like everyone who owns a firearm, this person is responsible for every round that leaves his/her weapon. Intentionally or accidentally.
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Totally preventable, totally inexcusable, in my opinion. The guy is lucky the survivors are so generous with their forgiveness.
Training is always good. Especially for those people who insist they don’t need it…
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One needs to be acutely aware of the gun, when handling it, don’t just rely on instincts. No distractions, TV must be off, dog out of the room, etc. The 4 rules is enough. Every time there is an ND, there is a mistake not following the 4 rules of gun safety.
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Yes, how much simpler can they be? And yet some shooters continue to ignore them, sometimes with lethal consequences.
And while I agree that “mandatory” is a crappy way to run a railroad, in the practical world (not the ideal world), we have reached a point where Second Amendment arguments have entered the realm of popular opinion—the stuff of PR firms and political theater. Polls show that the majority of Americans support the Second Amendment. I suspect others polls would show that at least a plurality of Americans regard firearms owners in general as falling more into the realm of the irresponsible. As a result, “mandatory” becomes a mantra for “The Reasonable.”
I believe we are at a crossroads. I also believe that if 2A supporters want to win hearts and minds, then it is up to the shooting community to be the ones who are controlling the narrative of “responsibility.” Then and only then will that perception needle move toward the belief that firearms owners in general fall more into the realm of the responsible.
Truth be told, last CCW class I took, I realized I wouldn’t want to be anywhere in the vicinity of 50 percent of those who had successfully completed the class if they ever were in a situation where they would unholster their firearm. I hold out hope that these people will avail themselves of lots of training and eventually become competent. If those of us in the firearms community would encourage this, it would go a long way toward making things safer at the range, on the streets, and, as illustrated by this incident, in our homes.
Modeling responsible and safe behavior, and insisting upon it from our peers doesn’t require anything “mandatory,” and it hits the target of popular opinion as well.
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That is a huge brush you used. That also would be true of most drivers, many having had their licenses for decades. Have you not had any further practice or training since you got that mother, may I card? At least you agree mandatory training, as you have seen firsthand does not equal proficiency.
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@Mr.Plastic You make very good points here. I would argue that the 2A community already does a decent job of modeling responsible behavior and training.
There are, arguably, 434 million guns in circulation in the US. Stats from 2017 show there were about 300 negligent discharges reported in the newspapers. Assuming 9 in 10 did NOT get reported, let’s say there were 3,000 negligent discharges in reality. That represents .0007% of all guns in circulation. Let’s say 99/100 didn’t get reported. Still just fractions of a percent.
The 2A community is failing to control the narrative not due to a lack of effort, but rather because they have no platform to do so. We are summarily banned from all the major social media platforms, as well by all of the mainstream media outlets. Until we find a platform, the narrative is out of our control.
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@Paul1 Thanks for your comments. I totally agree about a lack of platforms. Heck, the news people won’t give more than a couple of sentences to instances where law-abiding citizens successfully stop crimes with firearms. The Texas church incident wouldn’t have made more than a passing mention on the news if it hadn’t been for video. Even with that, it didn’t net more than a couple of news cycles.
I believe there are ways to control the narrative. It takes money and PR firms. One Million Moms got Bloomberg money. I’m not sure today’s NRA is up to the challenge anymore.
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Not exactly a fair comparison. Most drivers use their vehicles daily or several times a week and their skills reflect that. I think if people went to the range every day, we’d see vast improvements. Practice makes perfect.
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Yet the turn signal ,
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LMFAO Thank you!
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To me, one accidental death is one too many; They aren’t statistics. Good points about the platform disparities. Just today, stumbled upon: https://www.prageru.com
In thinking about training, for a moment – remove costs from the equation.
Are the four basic principles the end all? As pointed out, how do we help ensure more times that they are applied? I admit I don’t have the answers.
I’d worry about the person who thinks they do not need or no longer need training. Millions of firearm owners, many in our community; I know my limits (only a year into our field), I’d turn to them to take us beyond the four basic principles.
Do we test for competency? Do we test for proficiency? Do Non-CCW Permit holders who only possess a FOID card, and can have a gun in their home – Are they currently not required to undergo any education or training (at all)? What else have we done to encourage training?
Are we in control of ourselves? In looking at our greater 2A community nationwide, should we develop organizations who mentor newcomers? Should some be non-for-profits? It’s easy for anyone who’s a new “owner”, to be left out, left behind.
How could training be paid for? Within those millions of minds, there may be answers. Legislators might pass laws requiring more training. And to my regret, yes, many of us won’t be able to afford it. Can taxes and fees collected related to firearms be used to fund training? Is society going to allow costs to get in the way of reducing an accident?
The four rules are likely already engrained in many of us:
I think we own this, owe it to our own community and to such victims to take an active role, as one common theme I admire about all of you, is that you care and you’re responsible stewards. I learned a lot from my own CCW Permit trainers, but also from each of you, thank you so very much. 
A Safety Rules link:
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Tragic on many levels. My CCW instructor taught me never to clean with ammo present. Have always heeded and have never forgotten it.
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The issue to your understanding, as you admit, is your inexperience.
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Their skills reflect that? Have you been driving on the same roads I have? No, most drivers are not very skilled, at least based on my experiences, and based on the number of annual deaths due to vehicle crashes.
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