Medicinal Marijuana

Legal & Second Amendment
1

First off, I realize that if one uses marijuana legally and for medicinal purposes, it negates one’s right to purchase and/or carry a firearm, as one would have to lie on the ATF Form 4473, or state CHL application, thus committing a felony.

That said, I know a person close to me who has not had any opiate pain meds, after around 12 years needing them due to a spinal birth defect. She also hasn’t required any muscle relaxers or anti-inflammatories, only the legal, medicinal marijuana. This for almost seven months now, since beginning use of medical THC, again, legally.

Now, I personally will have been in pain 24/7 for THIRTY YEARS as of 7/29/2021…I see this person not needing pain medicine, and must wonder. And I must wish that it were legalized on the federal level in order that it wouldn’t cost me 2A rights if I tried it. But, I know damn well if I applied for a medical marij. card in my state, my name would immediately go into the NICS system and negate the purchase of another gun, and invalidate my carry license.

As far as I’m concerned, the use of TCH is quite tame compared to the implanted morphine pump implanted in my abdomen that still does not take all the pain away. So why the hell can the Feds not get it together and make medicinal herb legal for anyone with a valid reason from a doctor?

After I was injured in the USAF nearly 30 years ago, I would very much like to try something I’ve seen take pain totally away from others. I’d love to have 5 minutes without pain. But to have entire days? That is more than I’d have ever hoped for. I can never have a day without pain unless it would happen to be made irrelevant to my 2A rights, or after it is, it works for me. At this point I can not even try it because it would invalidate gun rights. I’ve gutted the pain out for this long, I’ll continue gutting it out til I die unless something like this is legalized and actually helps.

Please support medical marijuana in your state and nation so that maybe, just maybe, I can have a day without pain, something I’ve not had since I was 20 years old, and due to a line-of-duty USAF injury.
Thanks for your consideration.

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2

@Smiddy I feel your pain (literally). There are many substantiated claims to the use of MJ for pain relief and the original documentation for making it a Class 3/4 drug were a bit sketchy even back when it was done. The real reason they haven’t allowed MJ to be legalized is that there is no way (currently) to test if you are “right now” high or if you smoked a joint last week. Additionally there is no MD that is going to tell you it is OK to burn a weed and suck it into your lungs. So can you get MJ synthesized into a “beverage”? YES. Will you still pop positive up to 30 days after taking one dose? YES. I can get hammered today on bourbon and get up and go to work tomorrow a little dry and if tested I would be good. Smoke a joint today and I’m going to pop for the next 21 - 30 days. I can’t take that chance in my job. Once they figure out a way to see if you are high “right now” then all manner of things can happen, till then it is what it is. As I understand it CBD/Hemp Based stuff has similar effects but no THC but I have not dabbled in that yet. Unfortunately the way the 4473 is written it specifically calls out MJ as opposed to all the other mind and body altering drugs you can get prescribed.

Cheers,

Craig6

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Buy them from a private individual. No 4473. No I’m not advocating for doing something illegal. I’m saying there are ways to buy a gun, legally, without filling out a 4473.

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There is a product I’ve seen advertised by several celebrities. Pat Boone is one of them.
Relief Factor. I’ve been tempted to try it. I’ve been in pain since basic training but especially after some more serious injuries in the Army. I’ve gone to dark places because of it. But my faith in God and love of family prevent stupid thinking. My point is that I intimately understand your pain. Hang on and try the CBD oils. I just grit it out and wear Lidocaine patches from the VA and take Tylenol. I refuse to take narcotics. II have family members that got hooked and died young.

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Prohibited Persons (relevant section):

who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, codified at 21 U.S.C. § 802);

Controlled Substance Act (relevant statute from 21 U.S.C. § 802):

The term “controlled substance” means a drug or other substance, or immediate precursor, included in schedule I, II, III, IV, or V of part B of this subchapter. The term does not include distilled spirits, wine, malt beverages, or tobacco, as those terms are defined or used in subtitle E of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986.

The real kicker on Form 4473 is the phrase “unlawful user.” That’s defined by federal law, not state.

I’m summarizing because a lot of folks don’t know the details. So it’s a general FYI reply. They also define “addicted” in the statute, and I would emphasize that it applies to unlawful use and/or addiction to ALL schedules of controlled substances. Ex: Schedule III includes anabolic steroids and codeine is Schedule V. Schedule IV includes several benzos like Xanax. Expired prescriptions, someone else’s prescription, most stuff obtained by mail order from outside the USA, etc. are all examples of unlawful use of prescription medications on the Schedule of Controlled Substances.

Sorry about the pain and frustration, brother.

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7

That would contravene the buying issue, but those of us here carry what we buy, in which case, a defensive shooting involving a blood test for us, the defender, could take us from an ER to a jail.
As much as I hurt, I will not under any circumstances break the law for my physical comfort. I feel the medical world needs to gather data and figure out a way to test whether someone one is UI of marijuana.
If I took an opana for pain, as I once did, it would show in my system a good while longer than some drinks, but was only partly effective for that pain for under 8 hours. And that is some heavy duty pain medicine…yet being prescribed it and taking it did not interfere with my rights as an American citizen.
There must be tests/studies/trials that can be done to deal with the “under the influence” part of medicinal marijuana which, BTW, in our state is vaped or edible. There is a bud thing available but I’ve not clue how it works, other than it must be heated.
Our family doc recommends medical marij TBH. Has had a lot of patients have very good luck with pain control with it. And of course since he has been my primary care physician for 25 years now, and witnessed my total of 5 implanted devices for pain management, and all of the oral meds I was once given (they didn’t work), he of course has recommended it to me. I refuse based on the law and my gun rights. If anything prevents me from carrying, it then prevents me protecting my wife (and I) while we are out, and is therefore not something I will do.

One small good thing is, my implanted (abdominal cavity) had to be filled yesterday, so I asked for the dose to be turned up…it was and it is helping noticeable more.
Yet, I wonder if I were to try the MM, would it be yet better?

Also, it is NOT illegal in my state to smoke a joint. Buying/selling is illegal, but one can possess a small amount, smoke a joint, no law broken.
I’ve heard some folks say that if you don’t break the law using it, and don’t get your name into the system by doing the MM card, it then depends on prosecutors in your area IF you pop positive during the course of a self-defense shooting trial.
There are two “If’s” in that which could get one sent to a prison for a felony. I don’t take that sort of risk. The Feds need to get on this, get it off the 4473 and CCW forms, and let responsibly armed citizens have access to pain relief like all the sheep out there.

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My actual injury was a traumatic burn that went halfway through my dominant hand’s index metacarpal. That metacarpal and finger were removed due to the damage to the hand, and the skin from them used to “flap” over and cover the palmar burn. As a result of that injury, I was discharged from the AF on permanent disability retirement, honorably of course and having served with valor.
I worked as a civilian ten years before that injury caused so much pain and weakness I had to apply for total disability from VA + SSA, was awarded it pretty dang quick all things considered. But, since being unable to perform the dream job I had just landed, without a degree (EE+Automation Engineer), it then cranked up the PTSD secondary issues of depression and anxiety, all three of which MM is prescribed to help in my state I think.
I just get ssooooo ticked. It is as though those who control the ball do not wish me to have pain relief. Oh, I can see a pain management doc, have implants, surgeries, etc., but if there is a drug on the fringe of the medical world, it is soldier stay away or you will lose your gun rights and maybe go to prison.
Screw that. Until it is legal at the federal level and I can try it without risking 2A rights, I will not. It puts me in the unfortunate position of still, after nearly 30 years, gutting it out a LOT, but that’s how it is.

What gets me though is that last year I read in Stars & Stripes that they were doing trials with veterans with ecstasy for PTSD. Now if they’ll bypass legal crap to do that, why the hell can they not figure out how to let a totally disabled vet try something new to the country for pain, to potentially alleviate it after so very long?
That is bullcrap and they whom represent me in my state and federal government, need to get it together on this one. I write them all about 2A stuff anyway, so am going to add medical marijuana to that list of reasons to write. They do work for us after all.

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However, it is a federal felony to use or be in the possession of Marijuana and be in possession of a firearm. This also means if a friend or family member has Marijuana in their home and you are there, even if you did not know it, it is still a felony, as it would still be constructive possession.

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Crazy question. Can a person travel to a country where it’s legal and use it? Or international waters? I’ve wondered about this for decades.

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Prohibited Persons under federal law are prohibited from possessing firearms, not just buying one from a licensed dealer. So, while you just explained how to evade the NICS check and committing a separate felony (false statement on a federal document), you did not solve the problem of being a PP and it being a felony…under any circumstance…for an illegal user or addict of any controlled substance to be in possession (even constructive possession) of a firearm. What’s more, the person from whom the firearm was purchased in this hypothetical case would also be guilty of illegally trafficking in firearms by selling one to a PP, which is also a felony.

You see what we are actually saying when we say, “enforce all existing gun laws?”

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Yes, I have read that many people travel to other countries for that sole purpose, and also to other states where it is “legal”. The caveat is you had better not be in possession of a firearm if you purchase/use Marijuana, even in those states.

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In my book marijuana is still illegal in states that legalized it. But I don’t think it should be illegal.

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Ok, in Ohio, what if a family member is prescribed medical marijuana, in vapes etc. Are they supposed to rent an apartment to store and use it? I do not see how it could “ding” me as a concealed carrier/gun owner, for perfectly legal medicinal stuff to be in my home if that were the case, ya know?

And I’d never advocate for just up and smoking a joint if one owns/carries a gun. I’m simply saying that, smoking one is not a crime, and unless I were in a shooting + tested, LE would never know I did it. However, since I am a man of honor, I would not. Just strikes me as inconsistency in the laws around the issue.

Anyone at the federal level needs to at least start getting this issue straightened out. Tooooo stupid someone like me, or anyone in severe pain, can not use something that has been shown to help pain without jeapordizing or losing rights, plus being subject to criminal charges.
I have little doubt there are plenty of politicians who wish men like me would say to heck with it, sell the guns, stop carrying, and do MM legally. That’d be a lot of ppl disarmed would it not?

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If you are in possession of a firearm and there is Marijuana in your home, car, wherever, regardless of whether or not it is yours, it is a federal felony. What are you supposed to do? That is a personal decision. I am only telling what the law is. You do with it what you want, you are now informed.

Personally, I really don’t care. If one is not doing something stupid or illegal, and I do not believe possession of anything should be illegal, with the exception of stolen property, it should not matter what drug or arm, and number of rounds, etc., you possess.

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I don’t disagree. My point was it is not illegal to own a weapon, while taking medical marijuana. Yes, possession of marijuana and a firearm simultaneously could lead to a sticky situation, if the fess became involved. Also, carrying a firearm while under the influence of anything that alters your judgment is a bad idea, and most likely illegal. It is sad that Americans are forced by an over reaching government to choose between exercising rights, and their health.

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In general we have much bigger fish that could be fried right under our noses. Lets say you see your MD on a regular scheduled medical check up and mention you are having trouble getting to sleep lately. The job / life / kids have you laying in bed with your mind running non stop. “No problem.” he/she says. A script for Ambien or pick another prescription sleep aid is issued and you are now in the pharmacy database (run by the DEA to track narcotic irregularities) WITH a diagnosis “Anxiety” straight out of the DSM-IV or V. So now you have a no kidding for real Psychological diagnosis of Anxiety WITH a prescription. Remember the popular mantra “We need to interdict mental health issues before they become mass murders.”

Ding, Ding, Ding you just won the three letter club cross connect lottery, the DEA cross connects to the FBI NICS check system and you bought a gun while being psychologically compromised ON medication IN possession of a firearm. Can you say Red Flag? This is just too easy to apply disparate legislation to connect one fact to another and the game is on.

Anybody on a prescription that says “May Cause Drowsiness” ? Then you are potentially mentally compromised.

Yes, it can get that bad that fast.

Cheers,

Craig6

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18

I started this post not fo debate current laws, or discuss contravention of them. What I’d like is for my fellow carriers to vote for, advocate for, and understand the valid uses of medical marijuana, especially as it relates to 2A rights… The current laws need changed so that a disabled vet such as I has the same chance of pain relief as everyone else without fearing criminal charges. This is just very simple:

  1. Injury in US Armed forces
  2. Pain follows incessantly year after year,traditional meds don’t work
  3. Veteran has guns +CL,carries responsibly,maintains training
  4. Veteran desires pain relief vs pain reduction
  5. Medical mj has been shown to provide the type relief vet needs
  6. Vet wants badly to try it, but he’s a man of honor and present laws forbid it so he will not
  7. Vet concludes legislation is needed to fix situation
  8. Vet posts on forum where fellow gun folks read, asking to please support legalization of MM and removal of crimes related to using MM and owning/carrying/buying firearms
  9. Vet risked his life,and had a good portion of it Fd up in service to OUR country
  10. I simply ask you to be aware there are soldiers who carry, and need pain relief they can’t get because they do, and one if them,myself, is way too stubborn to break the law or give up my gun rights for pain relief, after having had partial pain mitigation for nearly 30 years. Never thought total relief might be possible, as my pain is an auto-immune type. Total relief may be possible with MM.

Please support legalization of MM, and it’s declassification as controlled substance the ATF can take guns over.

Thx for listening.

Blessings,
~Smiddy

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19

Exactly! I appreciate you connecting the dots. Great example of the cliff we are all being herded toward.

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20

Great topic. I recently visited people in a state that has legalized recreational Marijuana. We went shooting, & back to their residence. After clearing & securing their own firearms I was shocked to see 1 of them pull out a pipe & some “flower” (as the buds are called). While I did not partake it was still an uncomfortable situation. These individuals are white collar 6 figure professionals with 1st hand knowledge ( veteran/ doctor / LE /EMT, take your pick. I’m not giving details. ) of the damage a bullet can cause.
The current hodge-podge of Marijuana laws is just as bad as the reciprocity laws. While I am generally not a fan of federal intervention, I do believe it needs an update.

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Well, more directly, it should not be a federal issue to begin with. Repeal of the law and any regulations that make possession of a firearm and Marijuana a federal felony is the issue. Your friends, by law, were still committing federal felonies, and you were, too, if your firearm was on your person, or had constructive possession of it, just due to the fact their firearms were in the house and there was Marijuana present.