Thanks for sharing this. Hold movement and trigger press movement would look a hell of a lot worse in a real SD critical incident. I think that using the MantisX system for me simply means that if I strive for excellence in training building properly modified neural pathways in the cerebellum (people call this building muscle memory) along the way, when it comes to a SD critical incident, those training moments will help me to survive and get those critical hits to stop an attack.
As an avid golfer, I love statistics and numbers too. In , I love to track fairways hit, greens in regulation and putts. But, if I look at the rounds that I played in the 70’s, my fairways hit were not above 60%, I had less greens in regulation and maybe a few more putts than I wanted in the round. But, in the end after walking off the 18th green, I had somehow found a way to grind out a 75 or 78. I had ugly misses that I could and did recover from. Skill or luck? In golf, both.
Because I stayed focused on and true to my training/lessons, I remained calm when I faltered and I kept fighting. Sure, golf isn’t life and death. But the approach to training does have a few similarities. And as you put it, no one is scoring me if I faced a SD critical incident. In a SD critical incident will it be skill or luck? Probably both.
SD critical incidents are going to be pass or fail with no numbers given. And failure is not an option.
When you are able to make fast and accurate adjustments in the final fractions of a second before let off — or a moving shot where the gun never really stops — the MantisX will call those as errors. It’s just interpreting motion sensors strapped to the gun — without any input from target, sights, your eye/brain/body interactions (which is where the hits come from).
It’s not magic. I think the device just helps train your grip and trigger to be still and consistent — same as Wall Drill, Dot Torture, or bullseye shooting. When your hands are great at that stuff, it will carry over to hits at speed — but not necessarily to MantisX points at speed. Maybe someday my presentation or recovery to a perfect sight picture becomes perfect and instantaneous — that day I get perfect hits and perfect scores. Not there yet. For now I just attempt one or the other.
Oops. My beta has expired — have to see if my crappy internet is up to d/l the release version today…
I haven’t tried it yet, but I’m going to experiment with two smartphones so I can run the Laser Academy on one, and the MantisX on the other to capture both hits and movement.
Despite hits on target, the scores are pretty up and down and times don’t seem correlated to score. But after several runs, the developing pattern for me: When I pushed the average time down to around 3sec, scores just fell apart — still some highs, and still hits on target — but scores mostly .
Just needed to settle after the movement. MantisX thing.
Oh, that’s insight for me on the Laser Academy. I assumed it was integrated to allow laser target imaging/scoring and motion detection scoring from a single phone/tablet. But the default is that you do one or the other?
Moot point for me with zero “smart” phones in the house, but hard to see how that would be strong at selling expensive laser accessories unless the games are really cool.
There’s some new stuff on the latest version of the Laser Academy app, calibration (because the laser cartridge seldom points exactly straight down the barrel), and some courses and tests, but I haven’t tried them yet. All the LA requires you to buy is a firing pin actuated laser cartridge. The basic app is free and you can download and print targets for free as well.
Oh, ok. All I saw at the website was $100-$150 “kits”. Once I figured out that the app required an OS that I can’t run, I didn’t spend more time trying to parse the minimum cash outlay.
I spent a nice morning with a client going over his new rifle at home followed by a range visit so that we could get him sighted in and familiar with his rifle.
However, I did find some time for myself and went through quite a few cycles of exercises today. And no, I didn’t perform today’s training exercise called “Sit Ups”.
I did go back to my favorite Compressed Surprise Break again and was happy with the results. I was working with the Sig Sauer P365 again. Seems to be my usual EDC and the trigger is wonderful compared to the “Glock Wall” on the G19.
Oh, I feel your pain, man. Wait, no I don’t.
But I get the frustration of running a good string which falls apart near (or at) the end.
I push at my plateau with a benchmark average ≥95 — this week not so hot. I’m having to take my satisfaction from being a “better than average” participant at daily challenges.
If you don’t mind my asking, what are you shooting (assuming you don’t get this kind of results with any random thing you might pick up)?
I’ve developed this hypothesis that inadvertent movement of slack within the gun may be read by MantisX as grip or finger issues. e.g. I mount the device on the magazine base so I can work from the holster, and sometimes the fleshy edge of one or both hands will be in contact the mag or device — they can move a bit in response although I don’t think of that as affecting the functional part of my grip. And my stock articulated trigger has some lateral wiggle in it which doesn’t seem to affect hits on target, but generates random “too much/too little” trigger messages no matter how many knuckles I do or don’t shove through the trigger guard. I occasionally do things like switch from the M&P to a 1911-style, or reset the MantisX device — seems to have some effect but not consistent enough to prove anything. So I don’t know whether I’m just resetting my brain with little baseball superstitions, or actually settling variation within the external machinery.
My routine, I start with the full size P226, and follow with the P365. The heavier gun first makes running the lighter gun a breeze, and I usually get higher scores. I should add the P320 XFive to the rotation, right in front.
It’s hard to not get a little superstitious about the device. There are times when it seems to mock me just for the fun of it.
I won’t post the results but, I introduced my Wife to the MantisX3 this evening. We mounted it to her S&W EZ9 and her first dry fire exercises she was scoring in the 90’s.
She’s not as addicted to it as me yet, but she understands trigger break, reset and has an excellent grip on her firearm.
I actually accused one of the developers of exactly that when I was trying to finish some stage for one of the qualification courses. He thought it was pretty funny. Turned out there were some bugs — inconclusive whether I also had a share, but I got through it eventually…
A few versions ago, when I was shooting primarily with the P320, they added a Shot Detection Mode specifically for that gun.
Previously, I had been using the regular old universal dry fire mode. I was perplexed why my shot scores had suddenly gone to hell with almost nothing above 92. I thought I had fallen into some horrible bad grip habit.
After realizing that new option was there, and switching to it, suddenly I was back to shooting mid-90s.
So that tells me there’s more than just the raw accelerometer values at play.
Thanks. I’m not familiar with those except on paper. The P365 seems similar in size to my .380. My partner has a full-size M&P 4.25" which I shoot occasionally — seems like very similar dimensions but lighter and more capacity (less metal, I suppose). I just shoot my carry gun over and over — or whatever I’m working on at the moment, if it is something different.
Although I don’t shoot them as much, I tend to score a bit higher on MantisX with the 1911-style pistols (Kimber 380 or Officer-size .45ACP) than I do with the M&P9c — which I attribute to the tighter mechanisms of the metal and hammer guns.
I tend to hit better with the M&P — live or dry. I think the grip fits my hands better, and I’ve come to appreciate the M&P style of trigger.
FWIW, my Mantis scores in live fire average a little higher than in dry fire. Might be just that I tend to avoid putting ammo into some of the drills Mantis will penalize heavily. In any event, I haven’t felt it harder to get comparable scores on comparable strings in live fire as I’ve heard others describe — I’ve seen where they seem to do the same exercises, but just shoot different live. Haven’t talked to anyone in that situation.
I don’t recall whether I saw actual problems with scores, but I had a similar custom detection mode for the M2.0 M&P for a while just to pick up shots consistently. And a hardware timing issue which finally got attention when I submitted a session of Compressed Surprise Break with MantisX times 0.40 to 0.48, then a session with Pocket Pro II times 0.18 to 0.25 — I can’t prove which is true, but now I can record the same 0.2sec with either.
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