Lock the door or leave it unlocked

Went to the Salon with R this afternoon. It’s in what’s refed to as the “Ball Park” district of Salt Lake. When we pulled into the parking lot there was a guy standing about 3 feet from the front door with part of his belonging in a wagon and part scattered on the front entryway to the Salon. He had a small baseball bat in his hand. As we approached he was looking away from us, he started yelling “You Really Ducked Up This Time…” and was slapping the bat against his leg. He turned and looked at us as we walked into the Salon. When we got inside R locked the door, to keep the guy out. A little later another lady walked up to the door, the guy had moved a little but was still holding the bat and yelling. She was locked out, standing 5-6 feet from the guy. I stepped over and unlocked the door to let her in.

All of this got me to wondering, which is the most correct tactic? Lock the door to secure those inside of the building? Leave the door unlocked so the people outside can get in easier?


What is the Salon and what is its relationship to you? What is the relationship between the next woman and the salon? Is there no action taken/to take about the threat with the bat standing right in front of the door? What are you two doing, and where, in the salon while you are in it? How long are you are in there? Who else needs to come in/is expected/when?


As long as you were playing “door guard” I would keep it locked and let people in as needed. :+1:


911 make a call, jeez


The guy with the baseball bat most likely isn’t right in the head. It’s hard to predict his actions and you’re in a “damn if you, damn if you don’t” type of situation.

I honestly would be second-guessing myself if I were in your shoes.


Did you have a ball and glove? :grinning:


Nobody got hurt. You didn’t have to shoot anyone. Put that in the “win” column. Sounds like you did the right thing to lock the door and be ready to unlock it.


Who’s ever managing the Salon should take action either or both ask the individual to leave the area and call police to remove the individual from the premises, he is a danger to himself and to others in that state of mind.


Although I agree with most of the responses, I have to say, these days, I think I would have assessed the situation form me and my wife personally, and left, to come back another time.
I guess I’m not up for confrontation lately. If he didn’t have the bat, different story. However, when in doubt, lock him out!
I’m beginning to avoid more and more.
Taking a chance doesn’t seem worth it anymore.


Group Answer:
They have called the police on many occasions, I posted a picture of a camp right outside the door a bit earlier,

the police have a boiler plate answer “What law did this individual violate?”. The answer is “None, Yet.”.

@Nathan57 We went there for girl stuff, I didn’t know her (But would have intervened), R was in there for about 30 minutes - I came back outside after about ten minutes inside, the traffic is the Salon customers mostly women.

@Ronald150 The answer around here seems to be “They can be on and do as they please on public sidewalks”.

@Scott52 I’m kind of split on that idea. On one hand it seems like coming back later would be Ok but we never know if these guys will be there or not , on the other hand I’m tired of giving up the community because I’m afraid of what might happen. These are our sidewalks, our businesses, our providers, in my opinion the guy with the bat is the one that need not be there.


This sounds like a situation that could quickly escalate into something much more serious and dangerous. I would think that the police would want to respond and make contact with the individual, to prevent that from happening.

I don’t know the laws there but it seems to me that he is impeding on a private business (scaring off some potential customers), harassment, making threats while in possession of a weapon, public nuisance, disturbing the peace, etc.

Where I live it is illegal to set up a structure (including tents, portable shades, encampments, etc) on public right of way without a permit.

Seems like that is a pretty weak excuse from the police.


In one of the dumpy little SoCal towns I work near there is a little old lady who runs a small restaurant by herself. She keeps the door locked to keep the homeless troublemakers out.

First time I went there I tried the door and figured they were closed despite the open sign in the window. The owner came and unlocked the door just as I was getting back in my vehicle to leave.

I suspect that Mr. Unhinged with the bat could have been charged with a few crimes if the police really wanted to. But sounds like the police have bigger issues to deal with in your area since the homeless have been given the keys to the city.

I’ve only had one lesson on baseball bat disarms and haven’t gotten to practice it enough to assume I have a reasonable chance of pulling it off successfully. I probably would have found another shop or come back on another day. Sucks for the store owners that have to deal with threats everyday. It can’t be good for business or their mental health.


I don’t know the situation as well as you, because my initial reaction to the proposition of walking into someone elses business and locking the door is that I would be perceived as the likely threat. It wouldn’t be my business and would potentially put me at serious liability, I would worry, if I locked the door. What if the woman trying to enter says she was only injured by the man because the door was locked? What if there was a fire? Is it even legal or allowed by code to lock that door while the building is occupied with customers/public?

So me myself and I, locking the business’ door wouldn’t even cross my mind.


The door is immaterial. You ave a guy threatening patrons! It’s the owners job to call the police immediately and protect his business and his customers. And yes, it was the right call to let her in. A glass door is not much a barrier to a guy with a bat, only to the person legally tryin to get in.


Or, are you asking on behalf of the shop owner, vs yourself in that situation? Maybe I misread that.

As the shop owner or manager, I think the answer is to leave the door unlocked, though I’m not a lawyer, things would seem to be a little bit more certain regarding actions taken if the guy enters the private building vs being on the sidewalk. And it sounds like the pattern of behavior has him no longer bothering the patrons once they have entered.


Defense against a bat/club is easy but it’s not intuitive. Tell me if this is how you guys do it:

  1. Move towards his armed hand.
  2. Close, Fast, get chest to chest.
  3. Attack the weapon or armed hand, disarm of at least control.
  4. Once the weapon is controlled wrap up his head and rip it off.

Or something along those lines.


There are short term and long term actions.

Short term.

Leave. What’s so important at the Salon that you risk confrontation with an armed, deranged individual that you must enter the business.

Call 911. Of course, the police might arrest the individual, but then what? Jails don’t treat the mentally ill. He’ll just be released.

Long Term.

Leave and call the Salon to tell them that you will no longer patronize their business as long as threats are tolerated outside their doors.


I’m not rolling over and giving up my time or freedom of movement because these nutjobs are being allowed to intimidate and negatively influence businesses. Call 911 and tell the to get an officer there because a psychic is acting in a threatening manner. You don’t have to be confrontational, but we had all better be willing to push back against this craziness that is plaguing our cities. Perhaps a follow up call to the mayors office to discuss what is being done to protect business owners and their patrons. Put these officials on notice.


The only scenario I was taught was with the attacker coming at you already initiating an overhead swing with the bat.

I was taught to extend the arm on the side the bat is coming from to protect your head while diving into the attacker to try and get inside the swing. Then wrap the bat arm up and maintain control of the bat while attacking.

Ideally you are diving inside the bats arc before they can finish their swing but if not the bat should be directed away from your head and body by the arm but the arm needs to be perfectly straight so the bat will glance off if you can’t get inside quick enough. Bad things happen if the arm is slightly bent.

Getting in close before the swing starts and controlling the bat would be better.