Legislators trying like HeII to get it right - Firearms in schools

This is the continuation of allowing firearms in our schools. This one actually comes with some money…

The Democrat:
Rep. Angela Romero, D-Salt Lake City, said she’s someone “that doesn’t always feel like bringing more guns to a school is a good idea.”

The Republican:
Rep. Ryan Wilcox, R-Ogden, contended the point of the legislation isn’t to just bring more guns into schools.

“This is to bring more trained people. This isn’t just random guns. This isn’t just, ‘Hey, anybody with a concealed carry does this,’” Wilcox said. “This is next level. This is preparation (and) planning.”


Not a bad proposal since it comes with training, a demonstration of some level of competency and a place to secure firearms from curious children rather than rely on a teacher who might leave a gun in her purse or desk.

Now the question is whether the teachers who carry should be known to the principle. I suspect there are many on this site who would say that employees could conceal that from their supervisors.

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Loose lips sink ships

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If laws and company policy don’t require notification then I see no requirement to have to inform others when responsibly practicing a natural right.

In the case of carrying at school in defense of students it would be very wise for the law and/or school policy to require those who meet the qualifications to carry to be made aware of the other members of the security team so if an incident occurs they could mount a cohesive response and not risk being misidentified as a threat by the other responders.


The cohesive response gets into some higher level stuff…are teachers/staff who carry expected to respond, let alone cohesively, or are they expected to protect themselves and their classroom/charges wherever it is they may be?

I’ve never worked in a school but I would think the regulars would recognize each other and be pretty unlikely to mistake one another as the threat.

However, as was discussed in other threads, there would appear to be a very real risk if students were to know how might have a gun on them (physically overpower and take) or around them/classroom (find an opportunity to break into whatever and take it).

From the outside looking in, overall, I would worry much more about students or even the general public seeking out the teacher’s guns at some point…because I am fairly confident that if the staff knows, the whole staff knows, and eventually a student/kid is going to find out and then as soon as that one does, literally the whole world will know in minutes via social media

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The active murderers seem to more often than not be students or employees of the places they choose to attack. While I don’t know if there have been active murderer attacks by a teacher at school yet there have certainly been unhinged teachers who have made serious threats and lots of incidents of workers attacking coworkers. So a teacher with a gun walking down the hall could very much be the threat.

For armed teachers the safest course of action would be to lock themselves in their classroom and protect the students directly under their care. It would be irresponsible to leave the students under their care alone in that situation to pursue a potential threat somewhere else. One more reason why arming staff that isn’t in direct charge of a group of students all the time is a better way to go. They are less likely than teachers to be found out and revealed to the entire school that they are one of the armed responders and more able to go find and stop the threat ASAP instead of hoping the attacker chooses a classroom with an armed teacher or hoping LEOs arrive before too many more students are killed.

But I believe the top school administrator, other armed staff and responding LEOs knowing which staff are armed would be incredibly important information for those involved to know.


At present, teachers. with a CC Permit, in Utah can carry in the classroom without notifying anyone.


Absolutely agreed.

I think a very great benefit to armed teachers and/or staff in a school lies more in being a deterrent. It is well known (after the fact, sadly) that many mass shooters deliberately seek out soft targets where they are very unlikely to encounter armed resistance. One of the best ways to win a fight is to not be in the fight in the first place. Actually having to use firearms to defend students should be a last resort, only coming into play after all other security measures have failed or been breached.


Are you sure about that? The Utah laws I briefly looked at said they could carry but only if they get permission from the head of the school district to do so. Which implies at least someone knowing they are carrying.

I believe AZ has a similar law but I am not aware of any schools here where school staff has been permitted to carry.

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And how could the school know whether “those who meet the qualifications” actually disclose to the school that they do meet the qualifications and are carrying.

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A well designed program wouldn’t want the whole school to know who was carrying. That would defeat the uncertainty deterrence effect and potentially puts the teachers who are known to be carrying at greater risk.

In places like Ohio that allow school staff to carry, it is my understanding that the staff who want to carry must, by law and school policy, get permission from the school administrator, undergo an enhanced background check, psychological testing, and complete and pass a course specifically designed for classroom carry and threat response scenarios before being allowed to carry. Not just any teacher or staff person who wants to can carry there. That seems like a very solid, well thought out system to me that provides onsite security while ensuring student safety with armed staff that are properly vetted and trained to maintain safety with the day to day chaotic atmosphere of a school and the potential mass chaos of an active murderer event.