You’re right, text isn’t always the easiest medium for communication as there are no physical interpersonal cues and sometimes people do not know each other in the real world - as with most of the Community-goers here.
I’ve worked in social media for years and have seen people’s discussions like this one go around and around trying to make a point when each clearly sees the others point, but doesn’t agree with it. And I’ve fallen prey to that here myself. For that I am sorry. Thank you for calling me on it @Spence, I appreciate it!
When you’re passionate about something, it can be too easy to get lost in the back and forth without taking stock of where the conversation stands or is going.
In a text format, words can easily be misconstrued and misunderstood. To have the best possible chance of being understood and eliminate as much of the misunderstanding and back and forth, the most specific, concise words need to be used.
To that end, when we’re discussing people who do not what others to own firearms, please refer to them as such. They are anti-gun, anti-carry, anti-Second Amendment, etc. based on the context of your conversation.
We welcome all viewpoints here as long as they are expressed respectfully. I am here to help facilitate those conversations and I am very passionate (sometimes to a fault as you’ve seen here) about helping everyone who wants to learn.
I have gone a little further. I believe that while all 10 amendments of the BoR are equal, the 2nd is the most necessary. Without the ability to keep tyranny in check, any other freedom in the other 9 amendments are quickly swept away.
If you welcome all viewpoints then quit trying to squash those pointing out the democratic party’s position on gun rights.
I get that this is your job, you are supposed to moderate and facilitate, but you keep getting over into the realm of trying to dictate.
If we can’t have a free, open, and polite discussion about these subjects this forum serves no real purpose of value and thus all discussions of politics and and law relative to gun rights and carry rights have no place here either.
We’re not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings or drive them away we’re simply discussing the facts related to those issues and those very much include where the two major parties, their candidates, and voters stand and vote on those issues.
Not all democrats are anti-2A, and not all Republicans are pro-2A
It’s not dictating, to state the facts.
I’m as pro-Constitution as anybody else. For most of my adult life, I voted for a candidate in Illinois that was a pro-2A, Pro-life, Christian man, who supported the Constitution, and he was a. Democrat. The only reason I voted against him, was, his opponent was a friend of mine. They were pretty much the same on the issues, just one had a D next to his name, the other an R. Do the majority Blue Dog Democrats support gun control, yes. That doesn’t mean they all do.
Taking a break from puppy craziness to add, the Democratic party AND the Republican party suffer from the same amount of craziness. Both have factions that are true to their values and both have ultra crazy factions that get all the press and sound bites.
Here is the interesting thing. I was speaking to one gentleman who said that he knows plenty of liberals who own firearms. I’ve never seen that (And I wonder if they would be nervous to admit it?), but they must have been “older” and maybe prior military (I just turned 30, lol, “older” to me is > 50s -sorry folks)?
Kamala Harris owns a handgun. That’s disqualifying for a 2020 Democrat in my book.
Harris, a former DA, apparently thinks it’s fine to own a handgun for personal safety. That’s a position held by the NRA, not progressive Democrats.
Perhaps the liberals that are really anti-gun are my generation and the following generations? I would think more would be, because many of them seem to be only interested in being live-in-mom’s basement social justice warriors than anything else. Perhaps I’m being just seeing the vocal minority? What do you all think about the Millennials and Gen Z’ers? Are most of them anti-gunners, or is the minority so loud it just distracts from real people out there?
My two youngest were both born in the 90s and they both have their CC. Like their father they dont consider themselves part of a political party but rather look at the issues which concerns them and vote for the candidates that fill the most of what they agree with. (Besides that if they ever support an anti 2A candidate dad will not take them to the range anymore.)
Haha! That is awesome. I was raised in a very conservative home, and continued that lifestyle with my family. Maybe the stereotypical millennial is not the majority? Like these folks:
There are a whole lot of democrats who are publicly anti gun but own them because they realize that a handgun is the “Great Equalizer”.
Many years ago there was a very prominent anti gun Democratic Senator or Congressman who made headlines all over the country when he had to shoot an intruder. This was back prior to 2000, maybe as far back as the early eighties so forgive me if I can’t remember exactly who it was.
“Fine for Me but not for Thee” seems to be their mindset.
@JTS – As I say above, I live in a deep blue state and tend in that direction myself on most issues. As you infer, I’m “older” (when you are 50, you won’t think of it as old), and a combat vet, either of which may account for my views on carrying. But I actually know quite a lot of folks on the blue end of the spectrum, young and old, who carry and advocate for it. @WildRose points out the views of politicians, but I don’t think that represents the views of the constituency, who generally think in much more nuanced ways. I’ve lived in red, purple, and now blue states , and served in the military with people all across the political spectrum. I have found good, thoughtful, patriotic people on all sides, and find that most people tend way more towards the center than the extremes on either side would have us believe. Some may be a little more comfortable with government on some issues, some may be a little less, but regardless of the issue, my sense is we have much more in common than what divides us.
Soles was the more recent case from NC. The other as I remember it was from NY, NY or maybe CT back in the eighties or nineties but I’m having a hard time finding it, I just don’t have enough info to work with for my limited google skills to find it.
Soles case was not really a good self defense case since he opted to plead guilty to a lesser charge to keep from ending up in prison since at his age a conviction would have pretty well meant life in prison. He also wasn’t nearly as rabidly anti gun as the other guy.
My brain works in weird ways and it will keep scanning in sub conscious mode for weeks, months or years, so it might surface yet.
A clear majority of democrat voters continue voting for ever more rabid anti gun democrats but I don’t believe most of them are themselves completely anti gun and just misinformed and thus people who can be brought over to our side eventually if approached right.
@WildRose – In my opinion, the chart you provided above from the Pew study is one of the most interesting pieces of information on this site. What it it suggests to me is that there are varying levels of agreement between R and D for different measures, and for most we are only 10 or 20 points off, if that. I can’t speak for others, but when I decide who to vote for, their positions on guns is only one of the things I consider. As I said, I live in a deep blue state, but also one of the best for carrying. Around here, the left is as suspicious as the right of government, and there is not a lot of support for more control measures outside of small pockets in the big cities. Some measures come up every session and, despite a D supermajority in both houses, are invariably shot down.
The most important point you make both here and elsewhere is that civil dialogue is the best persuasion. Thanks, as ever, for your thoughtful engagement.
I have taken a few “liberals” to the range and they have a good time. Some have never been exposed to it. I tease them “Welcome to the Dark Side!” Soon you will be voting Republican. We all laugh about it.
