Conversations useful to our cause

Folks, I realize we have a pretty diverse group here, and that opinions of jury decisions, news articles, Rittenhouse, Arbery, Floyd, Biden, Trump are all over the map. I get that.

But I’d like to suggest to the assembled masses that what we are about here, and what USCCA is about, is responsible gun ownership, period. We’re not about overthrowing the government, or hating Biden or Trump, or any political party. We’re about how to be responsible as we exercise our 2A rights in a crazy world.

Personally, I think it’s eminently helpful to discuss how to AVOID ever using our tools to save our lives. Evade and avoid should be one of our #1 topics of discussion.

I do NOT think it’s helpful to try to figure out “hey, can I use my gun when someone is stealing candy from a baby” (ok, that’s an exaggeration just for the fun of it) or endless debates about court decisions. IMHO, these sorts of discussions do not help us to be responsible, defensive, avoidant and evading gun owners.

Wanna talk about tools and tactics? Great, I love that stuff!

But for everything else, let me propose that we all rally around the common topics we all believe in, which is keeping ourselves and our loved-ones safe by avoiding, evading and, as an absolute last resort, defending with force. Much beyond that, and I think we start looking unbalanced.

And make no mistake - our words here are being read by the broader world. We present ourselves as a community, and one way or another, people will judge our words here. Let’s make sure our words and ideas help further the cause of responsible, 2A rights.

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All true, however folks need to write & call their people in office, let them know what you think. There is a neverending barrage of unconstitutional laws being addressed. Only takes a little time to be heard.

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Threads are categorized so we can voluntarily participate in topics we’re interested in.

I like discussions on training.

But, 2A is under attack and we can’t avoid getting political about it.

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Hey @Scott361,
With regard to RKBA, responsible gun ownership, self-defense, etc., there certainly is more that unites us than divides us (or at least there should be). I think, however, there is value in discussing court cases, or when we can, can’t, or shouldn’t use our firearms.

There’s a new training video on the USCCA site, Concealed Carry Lifestyle. Inasmuch as it is a “lifestyle,” it integrates into essentially all facets of our lives in one way or another. Putting aside the “I’m right and you’re wrong” wars, there’s a lot of value in critique and discussion on topics that if not directly applicable to concealed carry, and the 2nd, are at least tangential to those subjects.

Especially as a relatively new gun owner and CCW holder, reading opposing views and their supporting arguments has shed so much light on things I simply hadn’t thought about before. While I can’t say I’ve radically shifted my perspective, I can say my critical thinking on various topics has been sharpened. So it’s hard to predict in some cases what will be and won’t be helpful; so much of that is based upon the individual.

Yeah, it can and does get contentious at times. Keeping things civil is paramount. If the spit hits the fan, is there anyone here who wouldn’t have the back of their USCCA brother or sister? I’d hope not.

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Yes - as long as we don’t look crazy. The court of public opinion is important, and we need to look, sound and act well-trained, knowledgeable and supremely level-headed. This will help us maintain and promote responsible, 2A-protected gun ownership.

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The 2A will ALWAYS be highly political and partisan. It is what it is. If you stand your ground on “No new restrictions” then you are against “sensible gun control” or worse yet “Common sense gun control”. There are enough laws on the books to properly regulate firearms crimes if they were only enforced at the level that was intended when sending people to jail for crimes was the correct thing to do.

The laws are in place it is the CJS (Criminal Justice System) and the other regulatory bodies that fail to prosecute that are the issue. Hunter Biden lied on his 4473, 73 felons attempted to purchase firearms in VA last year NOBODY is paying the price. GOD help you if you raise your voice at a Education Board Meeting or Town council meeting cuz yer butt is getting stainless bracelets.

We have all been well trained to stay silent and not “create an issue” when it comes to guns and self defense as it will create a “bad image” for gun owners. Here’s the secret, gun owners already have a bad image in the lame stream media. All we are trying to do is not give them any sound bites to use against us.

Mayhaps it is time to provide them with sound bites that support us. If you can get a venue.

Cheers,

Craig6

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The issue I sometimes have, when conversations come up among ‘gun people’, is being in favor of too much freedom.

That’s where I stand and all I’m going to say about that. Just, so y’all know where I am coming from, generally speaking

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Yes, because that only gives them more fodder to oppose even responsible gun ownership. So let’s not give them the material they want.

Repeat after me: well-trained, knowledgeable and supremely level-headed

That’s exactly what we want the court of public opinion to think of responsible gun owners. Don’t give them anything but!

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The mindset I try to take with case studies is to just not bother with why is this guy or that guy or some process right or wrong in a past I cannot change.

Instead, I try to place myself sometime in the future into the position of “this guy” — and consider whether I would attempt the same thing, or something different, and how do I see the odds of different options working out for me in this hypothetical future?
[Maybe by “me” also meaning the family, bystanders, community, society, or any other scale I want to consider affected by such an event.]

Then I try to place my hypothetical future self in the position of “that guy” — and consider all the same things. Then I consider the “process” of this past event — and try to decide whether or not it seemed correct, just, coherent, etc.

Sometimes the “one guy” or “other guy” is a plain bad actor — robbing old ladies, sniping at schoolyards, home invasions — so the conclusion to “just don’t be that guy” is pretty easy. But a lot of examples these days involve simple interpersonal conflict which devolves to violence — usually we can then consider finding ourselves on both sides, as well as non-combatant/observer, and how to produce a least harmful outcome.

After I’m done with all that pondering, I throw my conclusions against my own responsibility:

  • Am I trained, practiced, equipped, and mentally ready for what I decided was the best crisis response(s) to a similar situation?
  • Or do I need more preparation?
  • How do I go about that, and what will I do in the meantime?
  • If I wasn’t satisfied with the process, what am I prepared to do about it?
    – Complain, teach, testify, protest, donate money or service, run for office?
    – Or just whine and finger-point?

The learning and growth value of such contemplation is magnified when diverse minds with diverse experiences and perspectives all share the conclusions they’ve reached, and weigh them against those reached by others.
I hope we can mostly do that.
:smiley_cat:

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I think you just put my general attitude in to words. I know in some convesations over the past in my living zone. I have heard those comments " If he is running from my house with my TV I’m going to use deadly force". Or that old one If have to us deadly force I’m going drag him inside. I told both individuals that if they are running away let them go. They are no imediate threat. Dont end a life over a TV or stereo. Only if they are a Clear and present danger to you or family. I still think life has value. But don’t misunderstand. Under the correct circumstances I will defend.

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I generally agree with this thread, but acknowledge that off-kilter comments will sometimes open the door for education if the reader is willing to learn and the responses are delivered respectfully.

On court cases, I may be one of the users guilty of keeping those threads alive. But I find legal issues fascinating, and I learn a lot from other users here. USCCA has a holistic approach from prevention clear through to legal issues, so I don’t think we’re too off topic… most of the time.

Totally agree on politics. Most rational conversations die when someone injects politcs into it. But what others said before is true, 2A is a hot political topic, and it’s very difficult to exclude politics. I will only repeat what I’ve said before, 2A supporters cross the political spectrum. Talking heads would have us believe that only right-wing militia types own guns, but that simply isn’t reality. On a busy day at the range, I can find people who lean left, right, and backwards. And on the range, everyone is very polite. It seems to be unique to the internet that people are so rude and so quick to flame the political fires.

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Thank you Craig6.

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Elaborate on that! I mean, come on, I’ve tried to have conversations with these people. No matter what we say or do, they are going to call us , racist, crazy, conspiracy theorist. I consider the source, they think there are more than 2 genders, man can control the weather and they can’t decide now if they believe we came from monkeys, slim or aliens. So you want me to be concerned about not coming across as crazy? By whose standards?!

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I really do appreciate how well you stated our “mission” but I have to say, the 2A is not a cause but a God given right!
The cause is way more broad as seen by every court case, riot and self defense use, with a firearm! Avoidance is not as possible as it was 10 - 15 years ago. We are surrounded by crazies, resistors and all out lunatics. They are being paid for and endorsed at the highest levels. We tried our best and showed our good side for many, many years and it’s true, no good deed goes unpunished.
We are being punished daily. Nine out of ten doctors agree, if you keep it in, at some point it will explode. We can’t just turn a blind eye to the dangers that are being forced upon us. We have to admit they are all around us, for if they weren’t, USCCA would not exist!

Seriously, what country on earth frees their most dangerous criminals on it’s own society. What government pays it’s criminals “not to do the crime”? ( Seriously, we could be on the wrong side! Just a joke.)
No one has asked me, but that’s pure insanity! So if some of my conversations have not furthered the “cause”, neither has “BRANDON” nor this whole administration, when they swore to defend and protect the Constitution! Let alone it’s people. Last I checked this is not an empire, it’s barely, still a republic, in which the PEOPLE have a say.

Again IMHO I think He is burning it page by page, right by right, amendment by amendment! Maybe we need to scream or whisper louder. We don’t have to toss our TV’s out the window but maybe we need to toss some TEA!
That’s our cause. Representation is the pillar of our cause! Debates are never pretty but certainly necessary! Now, spreading like a pandemic, illegal!

I for one am totally guilty of spewing and ranting my political and 2A feelings. I caught a lot of grief. I have since kept it off the internet and only converse (spew and rant) with family (and they love me for it) and trusted friends! In my house freedom of speech exists, loudly and proudly! And no, I don’t own any Alexa’s, SIrI’s, ECHO’s or any other machine that talks back to me or that secretly knows what I’m saying!

Personally and IMHO it’s time to fight fire with fire. We lost because we kept our arguments in check, we were discreet, in some cases we even cleaned up after our selves. We, our “cause”, our rights, our very way of life is under attack from the people that are supposed to be representing our values and protecting our rights!
We are surely being under represented!

Will voting count, if it did we wouldn’t be having this conversation! There was a time, long, long ago when you could hate a President, Nixon, Carter, Clinton, Bush you choose, but it wasn’t a crime. Standing up for your child and your a “domestic terrorist”, Who are the unaccountable lunatics? All these things effect our options to avoidance and useful conversations.

Our cause, is and always will be, just, honorable and useful!
Your points are well taken and agreed that we should at least stay on topic.

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The problem is “responsible Gun ownership” is their fodder! Our whole value system is their fodder! The pendulum is broken, it will never swing back to a normal position. The earth has been slightly tilted off it’s axis!

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No matter just how “reasonable” some on our side want us to be. We’ve been played for a bunch of chumps really. Did you ever notice how people on “our side” always try to make us change to capitulate to “the other side?” Have you ever witnessed anyone in the opposition suggest to do the same.

Such polarization. And all created by the left.

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They are trying to make the Capitol riots be the worse thing that has happened since Pearl Harbor or 9-11. When, IMHO, they orchestrated themselves. They never mention all the other riots around the country, where they took over an entire portion of a city in Oregon, and not even a whisper. They are trying to rig elections that will virtually guarantee the outcomes in their favor for generations. Yes we need to discuss these things, out loud and be prepared for when they come for our final freedoms. I don’t believe our military have a taste to fire on their own people but UN troops would be itching to. Just my opinion.

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Yep

“The other side is never fair. They tell their side, I tell
Mine. If they don’t like it, they can bark at the hole.”
-Nick Searcy

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That is the key to Situational Awareness. I believe that has kept me and my family safe on at least several instances while traveling.

I don’t recall any thread that mentioned overthrowing the government, hating presidents, political parties, etc. I don’t hate Biden nor the Democratic party, nor anyone Left of Center politically. I strongly disagree with their ideas on “gun control”, so I cannot accept, nor tolerant a view that infringes on our inalienable rights.

People will judge you (us), and hate you because you are a firearm owner. Your politics will be moot in that. I joined numerous organizations and became an active advocate for our rights because sitting down and being quiet got us nowhere.

The most important thing I have learned in my quest for knowledge regardling self-defense and firearm laws, safety, use, etc., is that the Second Amendment is a guarantee from our government to protect our RKBA; the government did not give us our RKBA, neither can government take it away from us - it “shall not be infringed.” Our RKBA is a Natural/God-given (depending on your religiosity) right and any laws that infringe on that right are intolerable.

I used to believe, just as I did about drugs, that regulating them was reasonable, but then I became an adult and learned the truth. How many times do we need to read about felons with firearms committing crimes before one realizes “gun control” only controls those willing to be controlled; it does not prevent crime. In fact it increases the number of crimes, and worse, “gun control” negatively impacts those desiring to follow the law the most.

“Gun control” also impacts the poor, minorities and women the most. The group with the most firearms in the USA is wealthy, old white men. We constantly hear from those on the Left how bigoted and racist those on the Right are, yet “gun control” laws most negatively affect poor, minorities and women.

I strongly believe in egalitarianism - a founding principle of our country. Most firearm laws create special classes of citizens, either the “only ones”, DAs, judges, etc., or those that have the connections, time and money to get through the system. That to me shows how unconstitutional “gun control” is. Look at the permitting process in many states, several hundred or more, x number of hours training, etc. In those states one finds few poor, minorities and women with permits. One does find that the few that do have permits are typically well-connected, wealthy, old white men. This is why I strongly support our RKBA, as written in the 2A, “shall not be infringed.”

You want unity, contact your reps and talk to everyone that will listen; explain the hypocrisy of “gun control” and fight to end infringements on our rights that “shall not be infringed.”

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The conversations here brought up a term I heard a good ways back. Rooftop Koreans. These folks armed up and defended their property and selves. I think its off topic. But still worth a mention. :us: :us:

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