Send it.
Is it time to open the “Is .32 enough” debate?
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They have already opened is .22 enough!
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This guy I know from work has a CCW. He doesn’t carry. Why? He’s got a .50 and cannot conceal it.
Kid you not, actual conversation.
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So there is an argument that the 9mm luger has more “stopping power” than 380 ACP. If we are thinking about stopping power in terms of ability to stop an individual in a defense situation there are obviously tons of reasons to pick one cartridge over another. The one I come across most is that the 9 mm can stop someone easier because it has more kinetic energy and is a bigger bullet. Keep in mind that the diameters are the same it might not make a huge difference in the entry hole. The difference I could see without digging insanely deep into the math and keeping it simple is that 9 mm is a more energetic round (see figure 1.). Because the 9 mm bullet fires with more energy and because hallow point work by trapping air in the pit of the front and the individuals body, there would be more force transferred from the trapped air to the body than the 380 ACP round.
If this causes more damage it is reasonable to assume there is a higher chance of stopping an individual.
The size of the pit in hallow points will also vary greatly and it may be more than just the trapped gasses that cause it to peel open.
So, with that in mind the question of does it have more stopping power? I would say yes but it depends on more than that. Can you control a 9mm as well as a 380 ACP in a bad situation with a bad shoulder or other muscle issue that will change how you aim? Will you practice less if the round hurts you too much? What makes the most sense for you may vary. Personally, I use a 380 ACP and I have been considering getting a 9 mm. I haven’t yet because I struggled to find a 9mm sub compact in stock. Its all up to you of what you deem is more important in protecting yourself.
I hope this isn’t full of mistakes but please let me know if you have differing opinions on this topic and my approach was flawed. Constructive criticism only please.
Figure 1.
Kinetic Energy (KE) Equation: KE = .5mv^2
9mm bullets are 9mm in diameter, usually weigh ~150 grain, and runs travels about 850fps.
KE = 0.00971984kg*(259.08m/s)^2
652.4 joules of energy
380 bullets are 9 mm in diameter but slightly shorter, weigh ~100 grain and travel roughly 1000 fps.
KE = 0.00647989kg*(304.8m/s)^2
602.0 joules of energy
Keep in mind these are rough calculations and different loads will vary a lot. I just threw this together to put my thought process down.
Please keep in mind this is for self defense and the most popular self defense rounds are hallow points. Take a look at my comment below. Thank you for the diagram it’s good information as well.
Stopping power is more correctly associated with momentum, mv, not kinetic energy, mv-square. Not having that square power means much more gentle increase in stopping power from caliber to caliber. According to Ammo Momentum and Energy Chart | Ruger Forum , difference in momentum between a 380 at 90grn, and a 9mm at 115 grns is 6 lb-ft/s, while overall momentum of 9mm is 19 lb-ft/s.
Imagine hanging a 5lb dumbbell and a 20 lb dumbbell on a wire at chest height, and then casually walking into them. Much stopping power?
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When it comes to stopping power, the 380 makes the FBI’s defensive round list. Just as 9mm rounds have more versatility today, so does the 380…and why not? It used to be called a “9mm short” years ago.
I have a daughter that has a Walther PK 380…a very nice gun. I’m gonna probably make my next purchase a Walther PPQ 9mm and then I’ll get a Bersa Thunder 380. I think I’m done after that.
Here’s a pic of my daughters Walther:
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Yep Shot placement!
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Check this out—
Rachamin carried a seven shot .22
The terrorists had an AK
Rachamin didn’t say to himself I’m out gunned and surrendered. He attacked with what he had and did what he had to do.
He obviously knew his weapon and this leads me to consider that training—knowing your weapon—trumps caliber & magazine capacity.
There are no shortage of stories about officer involved shootings where a LEO will mag dump 15 rounds of 9mm or .40 without hitting the perp.
Obviously knowing your weapon is the elephant in the room here.
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Agree that knowing your weapon’s abilities and limitations are important. But I would say that knowing your own abilities and limitations with whatever tools you have available is vital. Add in some unwavering determination to act to the best of your abilities and your chances for success go way up.
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Rodger that! Shot placement!
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10mm brass has a trim length of .987-.992. 40 S & W has a trim length of .845-.850. Case mouths are both .423. therefore, the .40 S & W WILL chamber in a 10 mm, but I wouldn’t do it unless it was a life of death situation.
.38 Special has a much longer case than 9mm, so it won’t chamber at all in an auto. Maybe in a 38 revolver, but you’ll need moon clips to hold the 9mm. Bullets for .38 are .357 dia., while 9mm is .355-.356. Also, .38 special is a straight wall case and 9mm is tapered, so it’ll be hard on the 9mm brass, not to mention all the space the bullet will have to jump before it engages the forcing cone of the barrel.
I’ve shot the 380ez, very accurate.
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Any one try these yet? Not to be confused with the old Hydro Shock.
According to Federal they are the first .380 JHP to pass the FBI protocol gel testing for bare and heavy clothing. And the couple online tests I found look promising by .380 standards. When my hopefully repaired LCP 2 gets back from Ruger I am thinking of giving them a try. If I can find any in stock at non blackmail prices:(
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Well, that caught my attention! Defiantly good improvement to the .380 ammo. I use Federal Law Enforcement for my .45. Having good ammo for the ladies gun has always been a priority. Thanks for posting this!
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This is just a simple thought. If your aim is true does it matter which caliber? Simple question not about all the ifs, ands & buts.
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Don’t think the problem is quite so simple because of the if’s and but’s:)
What if you shoot someone in the chest and the bullet glances off the rib cage? It could be because of the angle it hits or could be the bullet lacks the mass and velocity to maintain momentum. Some calibers and specific bullets are a lot less likely to deflect than others.
What if the person being shot turns to the side and your bullet has to go through their arm and the width of their chest before hitting something vital, possibly having to pass through multiple bones? Again caliber and bullet design could play a significant role.
What if with a straight on shot the center of your bullet just misses the heart or spine? It may not stop the attacker quick enough in that case. But if the bullet expands well enough it might still nick something vital on the way through plus impart more energy on the target.
Accuracy is key but making sure the bullet can continue on its path to actually hit the things you need it to is an important consideration. 380s and especially 22s are just not as reliable at getting the job done in as wide a range of situations as 9/40/45 etc. Though the 380 Hydro Shok Deep may be good enough in most circumstances where barriers aren’t an issue. Wish I could find some in stock at a reasonable price for my little micro.
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Depends on the job, right?
If your goal is to cut someone in half, then a .22 is much less effective than a .50.
If your goal is to make someone reconsider his life choices, then a well-placed .22 (or a group of them) will probably do the job as well as any other round.
We all remind each other that we don’t “shoot to kill,” we shoot to stop a threat. So now it’s a numbers game. How often will a small pistol caliber fail to stop a threat when a large caliber round would do it? Bearing in mind that even large pistol calibers are inferior to large caliber rifle rounds, how do we balance that risk with the ability to conceal and hit a target?
I like the way USCCA summarizes it. Paraphrasing: Carry the largest caliber you can effectively shoot and conceal. We won’t all get the same answer.
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I’m not willing to trust my life to the chance that someone, who has quite likely had a life full of bad choices and decisions, will suddenly reconsider and make a good choice in the heat of the moment. I would like the best reasonable chance possible of making sure their body isn’t able to effectively cooperate with whatever choice their mind decides to make.
Not saying to not carry a smaller caliber if that’s what you want or all you can handle. I hope to be able to make that choice more regularly now that my .380 LCP is back from the shop especially if I can get my hands on Federals new Deep round. But even with that round, I have no illusions that .380 will be as effective in as many situations as my trusty 9mms.
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