If Given The Choice Would You Run Or Fight

Many years back I had a young man pull a knife on me, he was only 3 or so feet away as such he was a serious threat, however I was one up on him I saw him talking on a payphone when I walked into the store and noticed he was watching me on the way out, looking carefully at my windshield I could see him coming up behind me, I cleared my shirt and had my hand on the stock of my firearm when I got to my car I opened the door and got behind it, I didn’t want to take the risk of getting in while trying to keep him out, when I turned around he pulled and opened the knife and demanded money, I replied time to call Southeast.

That didn’t register with him buy he saw where I had my hand turned around and ran off behind the store.

After I got in my car locked the door and started it up I realized I was shaking.

Thankfully I never had to draw my firearm and shoot him.

After that I went through a lot of thought about running if i could versus and standing my ground which is legal in Florida.

MY final decision was if at all possible run quickly and if needed drag whoever is with me along for the sprint.

That stated what would do if placed in a position where you would be justified in shooting, but had the option to run away safely?

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Pull a knife on me…10 mm to the dome.

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Never heard that before, and not sure exactly what it means to you, either.

It is always best to avoid conflict when possible. Every class, video, and USCCA training, drills that into you. You can’t get hurt if you are not there, and you will not face any legal issues, regardless of being “legally justified”. Being detained, questioned, arrested, jail time, loss of work, time and money, malicious prosecution, etc., just isn’t worth being “right”.

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Be polite, be professional have a plan to kill anyone that comes within 3 feet of me with a knife!

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I was a old radio spot for Southeast Bank, each one had a different theme such as.

Roof leaking but you don’t have the money it’s time to call Southeast where we make it easy to get a low interest home equity loan.

And they had them for all types of scenarios, new kitchen, car, pool,just about anything.

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3 feet is too close… :dizzy_face:

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My biggest concern there is the knowledge that running away is safe. Turning your back to an armed threat is a risky call.

If I do reasonably believe I can retreat safely I will 100% do that every time. I have absolutely no desire to harm anyone else nor any desire to save face or let my ego be like “but he was a jerk I can’t let him do that”…no that’s not an issue if I can avoid deescelate run-fu as ASP would call it, that’s the way to go “it’s not worth it” to have a confrontation you don’t have to

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…and if the body is incapable of running it’s good to have a plan.

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:notes:: “You’ve got a knife, I’ve got a gun. Come on, boy, we’re gonna have a little fun…” :notes:

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That is 100% correct and that is why I didn’t try to get into my car it would make drawing my firearm more difficult and I doubt I would ever get the door before he be on top of me with that knife.

To compound that I know how to disarm a person holding a firearm if they haven’t had weapon retention training, but I don’t have a clue how to disarm a person with a knife.

Way back when I was first certified as a NRA Training Counselor I had a friend of mine who was a patrolman with the Hollywood PD call me up and ask if if he got a handful of fellow officers over to his place would I be willing to certify them as firearm instructors.

Now LEO’s where exempted from the licensing requirements, however the PD’s legal advisor has contacted the Florida Attorney General and was advised certified officers are exempt but to be covered by by the department, they must carry their duty weapon while off duty.

Or they could obtain a FL CCL and carry their choice of firearms.

I agreed that could be done in a weekend, that was after I contacted the NRA to clarify if I could skip the firearm range requirement ,as all of the officers where already PD range certified, the NRA advised me in that case I could skip the range time and certify them without it, but if possible I should get a copy of their training certification which all of them provided me with.

On Sunday afternoon while I was filling out their certs I noticed one of them in a OWB holster without
retention strap, I mentioned he might want to purchase a holster with a basic snap type retention strap.

His reply was BS there is no way you or anyone else could get my gun away from me, I made him a bet I take away his firearm he buys another 12 pack, if he retains the firearm the 12 pack is on me, he took the bet.

The firearm was unloaded and I confirmed it was unloaded, I explained the rules where you will not have your hand on the firearm and will not go for it until I begin the process of taking it away from you he agreed that is fair and normal request.

My friend walked over to me then whispered, your up to something and I have the feeling your going to get that gun, this ought to be interesting.

The officer re-holstered his firearm, we went out back into the yard and both of us being right handed which is the side we both carried on walked toward each other right side to right side, I probably would not be able to disarm a lefty.

As we passed each other I bumped into him then turned around with his firearm in my right hand even though he knew I was going to do that.

Now all of them where glaring at me with a Whisky Tango Foxtrot look on their faces.

So back inside we went and Mr, Firearmless took off to make good on his side of the bet.

I was being asked all kinds of questions the primary one being where did I learn that, I asked them to wait until the officer returned with more beer.

After he returned I let all of them know I learned while in prison on a murder rap, that got me some strange looks, they where getting a firearm instructor certification from a felon, I quickly let them know I was kidding have never been in prison on the wrong side of the bars and explained I learned it from a contractor I worked with on a regular basis but never asked him where did he learn it, I didn’t want to know.

Then I was asked if I could instruct them how to prevent that, the answer was no I don’t have that kind of training yet, I’m working on getting it, but I was sure whoever certified them as officers could provide them with some leads as to where to get the training.

What happened was very good for me was they hammered the PBA to force the department to provide the training and I was allowed to attend the first round of the training, so I got it for free.

That was a really nice favor considering I didn’t work for the PD.

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A lot of these stories remind me of

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I would have gone back into the store and asked for an escort to my car.

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While it cost me a window screen learning how to get out of our home should either of us discover someone in the home who doesn’t belong there that didn’t matter.

The plan is if either of us thinks someone is in our home who shouldn’t be there we will get out of bed and one of us if possible using the remote lighting controller which both of us have on our night stands press the “all on” button, which will turn on every light in the home excepting the bedroom, I believe that will confuse and disorient the person slowing them down and maybe fleeing.

If that fails to work it’s on to plan B.

That is one of us probably myself will open a bedroom window and kick out the screen, I had my wife do it and she knocked it out on the first try though the screen was ruined, no problem all I wanted to know is if I am not home she can kick that screen out first try.

Now if some some reason the alarm hasn’t already gone off kicking that screen will cause it to go into alarm.

The next step and we both did it was go out the window feet first then drop to the ground and head for the shop enter the door code and get inside, plan B is to open side gate the gate run over to our neighbors door knock and get inside their home and wait for the Deputies to arrive, we have an agreement they can do the same thing and shelter in our home until the law arrives.

Now legally all law abiding citizens in Florida can stand their ground and if there is a reason to do so I will, but if I can get out of it safely I will first, if an intruder corners me somewhere in the home they have left me with no other choice.

Folks can call me a chicken if they wish to but I would rather be a chicken then take another person’s life, even if they deserve it.

My problem is I don’t want to injure of kill another person as doing so can really mess with a persons mind, I have studied what I can find about people who have justifiably killed a person and too many of them become so messed mentally they committed suicide.

I don’t like that idea, I prefer to stay alive.

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That is one of the major factors in deciding what to do, if I can find concealment or shelter I will but if I am cornered, I have no other choice left.

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With my old knees I’m not “running” anywhere without getting stabbed in the back while trying. Him being 3 feet away I think you did exactly what you should have. Great thinking considering the immediacy of the threat.

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TRUTH!
"Go dome or go home!‘’

Smart Move! Or stay IN the store and call the Man!

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I don’t consider myself to be very old but having worked in construction as a licensed electrical contractor for a few decades my right shoulder and hip are torn up rather badly.

My shoulder would get very painful to the point I couldn’t hold or fire my .380, so I went to respected pain doctor over in Fort Meyers, I explained right up front, no pain medications, period.

He sent me to a radiology clinic to have a MRI and some X-Rays, the diagnose was a torn rotator cuff in my shoulder and I need a hip replacement.

I refused to have a hip replacement, I have never been under the knife and have a few friends who did have hip replacements, a majority of them 4 out of 5 where in more pain after the hip surgery then before, two have had replacement surgeries with rather little relief of their of their pain, the solution for them was pain medications, which if I take will prevent me from operating power tools, using my range or driving and that is totally unacceptable.

As for my shoulder he using a sonogram gave me a injection with what looked like 2 inch needle of some from of a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, thinking the injection would be very painful I looked away and didn’t watch what was happening, but other going through going through the flesh it wasn’t very painful at all, more like getting draw for a blood test than a injection with that rather long needle…

After it worked very well after 3 days no pain at all and I was able to go out out back and practice on my range once again with both a .45ACP and the .380 ACP neither of which was not possible prior to the injection.

It will have to be repeated every 3 months for the rest of my life but my co-pay is only $50 so that is a very low price to get the use of my right arm back.

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As others have stated, when getting away or deescalating without a fight is a viable option with a very high likelihood of success, that is usually the best option to take.

But I and anyone I am with would have to have a clear path to safety and high probability of reaching it. I am not as fast as I used to be and wouldn’t want to turn my back on a threat if I couldn’t get to a safe place before they could get to me or those I am with.

If I had no clear path to leave and felt I had a moment to give commands or suggestions before having to use force, I would make sure my words are clear and easily understandable to a broad audience. Maybe something along the lines of “back off!”. Though sometimes saying something confusing can nock a person out of their OODA loop. Though I wouldn’t waste time on that tactic if they were closing in and/or going for a weapon.

Ideally I would notice them considering me as a target and would just not put myself in position for them to single me out and approach in the first place.

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I concur on this point. Us old guys don’t run.

Good thinking using the door as a shield. Even if your attacker did choose to go around the door, it would have given you that extra time to clear your holster. You would have been good at that close range with firing from the hip.

Along with my EDC sidearm, I keep a drywall hatchet next to the driver’s seat in my Expedition and an old (1903?) Wilkinson bayonet tucked between the seat and the console. They have both been used to scare off baddies with little knives. I also have a Kershaw folder model 1950 in my pocket. I think Kershaw calls it a “Tremor”.

Kudos on how you handled the situation.

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[quote=“Shamrock, post:18, topic:103775”]Ideally I would notice them considering me as a target and would just not put myself in position for them to single me out and approach in the first place.
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Correct which is why instead of turning around I watched him in the reflection off my windshield, I didn’t want him to tip off I was watching him.

What was sort of funny is after he pulled his knife and also noticed I had my hand on the stock of my firearm which back then was a black .45 Colt Officers ACP and I was driving a brand new dark green Ford Crown Victoria,

At that point the 4 or 5 functioning brain cells he had in his head connected and he thought had made a really bad mistake, he was robbing a armed LEO.

Now I wasn’t a LEO but the reason I liked CV’s was their are roomy have a lot of acceleration and don’t attract LEO’s

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