Depends how much you dialed up the fps on them and whether you, accidentally stored them in freezer.
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I cannot find any statute that declares the curtilage areas around a home to be āThe Homeā for purposes of self defense. Can you cite the applicable statute?
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@WildRose, The Florida Statute is 810.
I found this on pages 233 (Chapter 11) and 305 (Chapter 14) of a book considered by many to be the āBible of Florida Firearmsā. The book is āFlorida Firearms, Law, Use & Ownershipā by Jon H. Gutmacher, Esq. He specifically references 810.011, but other sections and statues probably contribute:
Based on 810.011 (2) it appears the fence does not have to be intact during a state of emergency:
(2) āDwellingā means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether such building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night, together with the curtilage thereof. However, during the time of a state of emergency declared by executive order or proclamation of the Governor under chapter 252 and within the area covered by such executive order or proclamation and for purposes of ss. 810.02 and 810.08 only, the term includes such portions or remnants thereof as exist at the original site, regardless of absence of a wall or roof.
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That addresses only burglary and trespass, not the use of deadly force outside of the home and certainly doesnāt address the use of deadly force against a non deadly threat.
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Not worth the effort of a reply, so am done here.
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I think Iād go outside with a 12bore at port arms and yell loudly. I suspect that would provide motivation to 99% of the scum out there to leave the area w/out pointing a weapon or physically threatening anyone. I donāt believe Iād just sit there and watch myself be robbed. YMMV
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Iāll help you out here
Curtilage
The area, usually enclosed, encompassing the grounds and buildings immediately surrounding a home that is used in the daily activities of domestic life.
A garage, barn, smokehouse, chicken house, and garden are curtilage if their locations are reasonably near to the home. The determination of what constitutes curtilage is important for purposes of the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, which prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures of a person and of his or her home or property. Courts have construed the word home to include curtilage so that a person is protected against unlawful searches and seizures of his or her curtilage.
Essentially it is the definition of your āpropertyā. The rules of deadly force are always in play but during times of emergency those rules are expanded.
Still not advocating killing someone over a generator but I have had the conversation on the topic of "Two guys walk into your house in the middle of the day and state āI am not going to hurt you. I mean you no harm.ā and begin to pick things up with the intent of stealing them. They KNOW you have no right to shoot them. SO how do you stop them? Lock the door and point a gun at them? Now you are holding them hostage or at least unlawfully detaining them as they have not left your residence? brandishing a firearm? communicating a threat?
This is the crux of the issue with a non-violent theft/burglary and the response to it.
Food for thought.
Cheers,
Craig6
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That would still be considered ābrandishingā or āunlawful display of a firearmā in most jurisdictions absent a deadly threat.
It may be defensible but youāre still probably going to jail and then to trial.
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@WildRose Yaā know Charlie Iām really curious as to what you would do given the original circumstances?
Cheers,
Craig6
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Depends on the circumstances.
Here in Texas I can defend property with deadly force under certain circumstances particularly at night.
In FL in an emergency during daylight hours Iād be armed but holstered and try to just chase them off, if they go aggressive and I had a justifiable use of deadly force I would probably resort to it. I would at least produce my firearm and make it perfectly clear that if they didnāt cease, desist, and depart immediately Iād be willing to use it.
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You have the right to confront them, armed. They will either comply, leave, or confront you. If they confront youā¦you being armed, and they possibly being able to take your firearm, can respond with the force you feel justified with. It is all about what any reasonable person would do in that situation.
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Iām on a farm at the end of a 1/2 mile private driveway, so no one just āpassing byā is anywhere near the place. Anyone on this place is either (1) a friend or someone on legitimate business or (2) someone up to no good. I would hope seeing an armed and P.O.ād homeowner would be sufficient motivation to encourage them to leave the area. The last thing I would ever wish to do is harm anyone, but I have no wish to be a victim either.
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Question for @Dawn :
Now that Charlie has confronted the two good old boys that just wanted to āborrowā his generator and escalated his āstuff defenseā efforts into a full blown shoot to stop the threat āself-defenseā situation, will USCCA bail Charlie out of jail, provide legal support for the criminal and civil trials, as well as cover the expenses (up to Charlieās insurance level) when the civil trial awards a settlement to the now deceased good old boyās family as well as an additional settlement awarded to the injured good old boy? Gotta remember this wouldnāt have escalated to self-defense level if Charlie had just let them take the generator and stayed safely in his house on the phone with 911.
Note: not picking on Charlie, his response succinctly described what I think most people would do given this scenario. (edit: Charlieās response may have been sarcasm, I really canāt tell.)
Meanwhile, Gary has died in Florida due to Encephalitis he contracted due to hundreds of mosquito and no-see-um bites he suffered after his generator was gone (tongue-in-cheek)
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Thatās a very interesting question, @Gary_H. The intent of the USCCA Membershipās legal protection is to be there to assist you with your legal defense after a physical self-defense incident. Is protecting your property considered self-defense in Texas? As each incident is different and there may be all sorts of extenuating circumstances, I am not able to give you a concrete answer.
I know @WildRose has stated you can use force to defend property in Texas a couple of times throughout the Community, however, the USCCA believes in self-defense not stuff defense. We use the shark tank analogy - what are you willing to jump into a shark tank to defend/protect? Your child, yes. Your smartphone, no.
Iāll defer to Tomās post above:
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I dont know legal but if there on your property stealing shoot [them] in the leg and lock the door let them figure out how to fix it!
Edited for language ~Dawn
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Shooting someone in the leg would be a bad idea, @_jszuts. To use lethal force in self-defense there has to be imminent, unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm. By shooting someone in the leg, youāre saying that you had the time to take a very precise shot during the incident, so you werenāt in imminent unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm.
Just like warning shots, shots to injure are a bad idea.
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Deleted by poster - stupid derailment ā¦
I donāt own firearms to protect possessions. I own firearms to protect human lives - lives of those I love. When it comes to a hurricane (I live in Florida), I will likely be away from home. Anyone wanting to swim in amidst 120 mph winds to ransack the place is more than welcome. I am sure authorities will find their bodyā¦ one day.
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Iām with you on the first part, but the looting and generators donāt start until after the hurricane - not usually during the hurricane event.
When you evacuate do you sometimes stay evacuated for several weeks until power is restored? I evacuate to a safe area close by and return before the bait thaws out in the freezer.
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No, itās also very much about statutory law as well. You can easily find yourself on trial for aggravated assault or worse if you are not completely with clean hands yourself.
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