How to respond if EMT and first responders are the ones being shot?

In this video an unarmed professional life saver dies (The video will explain everything)
I have some hard questions with this one and, I am not even sure if an answer is to be had.
How could we as (not so) average citizens have stopped this heroes death? While not getting in the way of law enforcement. The other first responders are already there. Could anything be done?

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I saw this a while back, definitely a sad situation.

I don’t think there is anything we could do in this case…when bullets start flying like that, you need to get low and find cover…we should only engage if we see the officers go down and or be overwhelmed IMO (and/or as the officers ask for assistance).

The only thing that could have been done was for the officers interacting with the perp to have drawn on the perp immediately once he started going for his gun…but John addressed that…

That’s the challenge these days with officers, many are so afraid of being a media target, they leave themselves open to being criminal targets.

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Agreed. Thank you for your input!

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There is nothing you could do. It was an unfortunate event. This type of stuff happens more than most people realize unless you work EMS or in an ER. I have been a medic for a long time. Been shot at on scene, have gone hands on with with patients quite a bit to defend myself, have been spit on, and have had my life verbally threatened a few times. I worked in the ghetto so it was quite common.

The way the guy was acting was about the way most people act after being administered Narcan. They don’t want to go to the hospital and half the time they have drugs and/or a weapon of some sort on them.

I want all bystanders as far away from my scene as possible so you do not become a victim and so i don’t have to keep such a close eye on you. Just stay a safe distance away. That’s the best thing you can do as a bystander. Honestly, the best thing you an do is just keep going about your day. Give us room to work and maintain a safe distance so nothing bad happens to you. If something bad happens to you because of the actions of a patient, you are just another person we have to treat as well as another victim of some idiots actions.

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@ThatGuy That is outrageous! They call you to help them and then shoot at/threaten you. What keeps you going? Maybe the few decent ones?
That is great advice. It will be integrated in my S.O.P. I appreciate it!

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This video is exactly what sparked some heated debate among my peers at work. (Security)

We are trained to use Narcan and the injectable generic Naloxone. We ultimately decided to adopt the policy of monitoring vitals AND searching the subject prior. If vitals are strong, we will let EMS/LE handle it. We will monitor vitals until no longer required.

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Very informative video and the critique is spot on. I will definitively need to ponder this for some time, and do more long-range practice.

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EMTs are trained to give people medical attention, to hopefully save lives. They were aiding this individual and the whole time he had a concealed weapon on him they did not notice. Maybe if the EMTs had been trained on what to look for when they are giving medical attention maybe would have seen the gun, that individual almost died of an overdose and had the gun on his hip the whole time. His life at that moment was saved and then he took a life. I have been to scenes of accidents as a police officer and the person who was being aided I would observe them and their actions, I would check for bulges and be alert. Just because you are helping them does not mean they are not armed. These LEOs did a great job by noticing this mans mannerisms and picking up on certain things in the way he was acting. It’s sad that the firefighter lost his life and it could’ve been worse if the officers didn’t stop him right there and then.

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Please take care of yourself and use your skills to get a better picture of any situation that you may incounter on the job, at home. Family Needs You, Deeply and safe.

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The adrenaline rush of the job and the lives that you fo make a difference in @Proverbs31.10-31. Evil people exist among the good. Eventually I did get tired of it and moved on. I work in surgery now and I am in my last semester of nursing school. I teach EMT’s and Paramedics now and do incorporate a day of teaching about situational awareness, scene safety and scene management amd run them through plenty of scenarios. It is an important aspect of the job. Bad things do happen though no matter how situationally aware you are.

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I worked in California briefly as a Paramedic, we had so many drugs on board the Ambulance that for some areas it was common for the Ambulances to be broken into or the medics called to s fake emergency and robbed. Where I was at we didn’t go anywhere with anyone unless we had a 2 car police escort.

I worked an accident here in the South , and the passenger had shot the driver and the car flipped. Passenger was really messed up, we were fighting to get a tourniquet on below her elbow, because the more joints you can keep patent better QoL for the patient. Anyways as soon as I got to the wreck I could tell the passenger had shot the driver or the driver had committed suicide. Just from drivers injuries.

Me and a nurse were first there and I talked the passenger into throwing the gun out of the car before we could help her safely. She threw out one of those small .22 revolvers, it made me rethink my thoughts on .22. I blew almost the entirety of my cars IFAK on her, she was that badly messed up and we had to use plenty of field expedient practices.

Then this stupid volunteer fire company gets there and uses jaws of life to cut her free and trying to brute force her out. Only problem was she had a shattered femur resting over her femoral artery. I got the Highway patrol to back them off and we got more of the car cut away so we could immobilize that leg.

That’s the story of what happened. Heres the story of what went wrong so badly. None of us had followed proper blood protocols so we all got quarantined overnight at the hospital. Lesson learned but I don’t know what we could have done. There were so many loose veins and arteries with blood that we were keeping closed so she wouldn’t bleed out and lose her elbow joint.

She did keep the elbow joint.

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Thank you all! This is why we are here. To make life better and more informed for each other. Amazing stores!

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I’ve seen this before and my first question I always think is, “Do you think the EMS regrets reviving this guy?” Second question is, “why wouldn’t they have determined he was armed and removed his firearm for THEIR safety?”

When someone is revived, they’re not all together there. At best they’re fuzzy and may not make the smartest decisions. I would be fine with EMS taking possession of my firearm if they were performing life saving measures on me and even letting police know and relinquishing it to them until I am recovered enough to take possession back. Had they done this here, they could have given it to the police and had this guy been legal and had a permit, he could have shown it to police and gotten his firearm back. In this case, I’d wager he was carrying illegally and taking it from him was all around a better choice than a shootout.

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@Erik10
I agree.

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@Zavier_D @Erik10 This is a bit of an ignorant question but, I thought ambulances did not carry drugs, as medicating the patients is a liability.

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EMS has limited tools to revive and keep a patient alive till they get to the hospital. Narcan for OD patients, various blood thinners and clotters for patients need either, etc. My father was an EMT 4 till retiring and then teaching others the craft and they did (at least back then) have limited drugs on board to keep a patient alive. Not like they have tons…just limited numbers.

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In California… This was the 90’s we had approximately 185 drugs on board our ambulance in San Diego. In Birmingham, Al. We had 18 drugs on board if you counted Narcan, Activated Charcoal, and Ipecac. That was on the Ambulance. On Life Flight we had about 150 ish. Much higher standard of training and Education. Usually had a Nurse Practitioner or a Nurse Anesthetist.

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