Guns in the News: What Is Essential? | COVID-19 Update | USCCA

News & Current Events
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The Founding Fathers placed the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution near the front of the constitutional lineup for a reason. It is ahead of the Fourth Amendment protection against illegal search and seizure and ahead of the Sixth, which says citizens have a right to a speedy and public trial, a right to an impartial jury, and a right to counsel. They put the Second Amendment near the front because these men had experienced tyranny, government by whim, taxation without representation and restrictions on the national trade for political reasons.

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/guns-in-the-news-what-is-essential/
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I know I am probably in the minority here, but I have to say I am on the fence on this issue. I am in michigan and some of our gun shops have closed while others has stayed open. I don’t feel that during the virus outbreak that a gun shop is essential, when they can still do their sales through a website. During this lock down the only outdoors I have done has been in my own backyard and I have only left my property for essential goods like food, the rest I have ordered. What I don’t like is we are seeing is these orders handed down party line. Aside from that our local range has shut down all events and is only allowing use of the outdoor ranges with distance restrictions. If every business was as responsible I am sure no order would be needed for anything but as we have seen even the people can’t follow distancing restrictions and stay at home orders. Like I said I know I am in the minority on this but I really don’t see having access to my local gun store as essential, when other than a new gun purchase I can get everything offline. I do strongly disagree that the Democrats have used this as an excuse to close down these businesses, when I feel the whole country should either deem them essential or not.

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Ok Roger35, I need a Firing pin for a pistol I have. You are right , why not buy online? Well I want to
 and Numrich Gun Parts of N.Y. has the part I need. But Gov. Andrew Cumgobbler shut down all the gun stores in New York. So Rog, along with me I am sure there are Millions of people that don"t give a rats tail what YOU feel is ESSENTIAL or not
 Also, I don’t particularly like Touchy , Feely guys
 So I don’t “feel”, I know that the whole country would gladly send you back to Communist China with your “feelings”
 Because we deem YOU non essential


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Articles like this cause me to return and comments such as yours cause concern.

I would ask, do you feel speech is essential?
Do you feel liberty is essential?
Do you feel freedom is essential?
Do you feel protection from unreasonable searches and seizures is essential?
Do you feel the right to face your accuser is essential?

I do not feel, I KNOW, free speech is essential,
I KNOW Liberty is essential.
I KNOW Freedom is essential.
I KNOW protection from unreasonable searches and seizures is essential.

A People that surrender Essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserve neither Liberty or Security - Benjamin Franklin

Individual Rights, Liberty and Freedom are always essential.

What the states have done is actually in violation of the Constitution. There are police powers the states have, but the state must still follow the Constitution, and can not deprive any person of their liberty, life, or property without due process.

This really has no place in a Constitutional Republic. If the people do not act as you or the ‘government’ determines to be best, the government may enact tyrannical rules?

As with each and every right, the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms is essential, and that would include any ranges.

Each person must decide if they like and agree with freedom, liberty, and individual rights, and a limited government which is to secure these rights. This may be hard line, but you either stand with the Constitution or you do not.
It does not matter if there are parts you do not really think are important, as others may consider it important, and we should all protect EVERY right, for EVERY person.

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I apologize if you miss understood what I meant by responsible business. I am not saying they should do as the Government said, I am saying if they took steps to ensure their customers were safe during this time, no orders by anyone would have any weight. For example if stores started taking precautions prior to being told to by the Government, it would make their orders just hot air. We have three local gun shops and each reacted differently, One gun shop took almost no precautions and only changed their hours of operation, the other two shut down briefly and put plans in place to keep customers safe. One actually went so far as to putting up shields to protect their employees. The took their own steps, no order will change that and being I just bought a new gun yesterday I chose to go to the one that took their steps over the one that did nothing. The Government can order anything they want its the people who have to decide what they want to do to be safe. Do I consider being able to buy a safe from a gun shop essential during this time, no. I can order it off their website have it delivered or pick it up. Do I think I needed a new gun today, nope, I wanted one and if they were closed I would have been ok with waiting a couple weeks, I would have ordered online and waiting until they were open to pick it up. It is my right to own a weapon, not to force someone to risk their lives to get me one. Like I said I am sure my opinion is in the minority here, I think it is wrong that the virus is being used as a political stepping stone to close down gun shops in other areas even though my area it is not. I believe there should be a consensus as to how important it is to buying a new gun today as opposed to waiting a month (does the need or want out weight the risk) spreading the virus or bringing it home and killing my child is not worth it to me but that is a personal choice, some may choose getting a gun a new gun is way more important than the risk. It’s easy to say the Government has no right to close it down, when it was the newly formed Government who gave us the right to begin with. This is a major election year, come november people will remember who steps they agreed with and whose they didn’t. One persons opinion right or wrong won’t change anything it will be the majority that speaks volumes not the few and like I said I am in the few.
Now do I feel my rights are essential of course I do. Do I feel rights are more important than life itself nope and I never will. I feel life above all else, why do I own a gun, to protect mine and my families lives. Without life rights mean nothing. Do I ever believe those rights will be taken away, it’s possible but I believe at that point you will see another civil war the people vs the Government. People will take so much but they will always respond to Tierney once they have tasted freedom. You can convince people of change but you can’t convince people to lay down their arms because a law says so, not even the supreme court would allow an all-out gun ban. One weapon sure, but even the Government knows what many fanatics don’t, millions of guns can never be removed without mass response. There are many non-gun owners that would fight for the right to bear arms.

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You touch on an issue. That is freedom and choice. You misunderstand a right in this also. It is not about a need
 it is a right. Some people will ask ‘do you need 15 guns’? It is not ‘need’, it is a right and if you have the means to purchase and want to purchase, that is your right.

Now, if you personally do not want to go to the store, that is your choice, and is always your choice, whether there is a virus or not. So there should be no need for government to step in.

This is a valid observation, however, just as you say it is your right to own a firearm, it is the store owner’s right to operate their business, if they want to. They may decide to close, they may decide to remain open, you are not forcing them to get you a firearm.

Some consider life without freedom, liberty and rights to be slavery and not worth living, others see it as something to overcome and conquer to find freedom, liberty and rights. We have the right to LIFE, LIBERTY, and PURSUIT of HAPPINESS (Property), we have a right to our property and a property in our rights. We have a right to our faculties and to use them as we see fit.

I grasp your meaning on responsible business owners, but it also falls to each individual, you have a choice, you are free to enter and conduct business or to avoid them, and go to another store, or order online. I guess I am saying, it should be each person’s choice, and government should remain out of it, and stop being tyrannical.

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All opinions are welcome here, @Roger35, as long as they’re expressed respectfully and I think you’ve done that.

I agree that for some, waiting to get an additional firearm isn’t worth spreading the risk of the virus to their families. For some, they are buying their first firearm and need it just in case the worst happens. (Some were very concerned about government collapse, police not enforcing the laws, etc. when this started.)

If gun stores/ranges want to be open, I think they should be allowed to be open. I also think that goes for all companies, however we know that not everyone will take safety precautions. (Side note, how am I safer going to Walmart with 150 strangers than I am going to a mom and pop store with 10 people in it? But that’s a whole other conversation.)

I will disagree with your statement about there being a consensus about the situation. That would be used as a political weapon.

I am pretty sure that 99% of us would agree that it’s wrong to use the virus as a political stepping stone or weapon against anyone.

We’re all trying to do what’s best to protect ourselves and our families and what works for one might not work for another.

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I agree wholeheartedly with your statement. I do agree with the odds of getting the virus in a smaller business are much less likely although still very possible. By consensus, I should have clarified what I meant and for that, I apologize. The point I was trying to make is that if the majority of the states determine a business is essential at this time then it should be essential in every state. I see exceptions like if a business is right in the middle of the hard-hit area and will likely put people at greater risk, then yes close the area down. I have seen it a lot the last couple days around here where some don’t believe the virus is real or at least isn’t a real threat and they choose not to take any precautions. I watched as one gentleman who chose not to take any precautions(no PPE) and was in line and coughed while the rest of us were all in it, let’s face it 6ft doesn’t protect against a cough or sneeze. Now many of us had taken precautions and it is unlikely that one cough meant he had the virus but none the less if he did we were all just exposed. I believe each state has to choose how big the threat is to them at each stage. I realize one state closing everything doesn’t mean the next state should, I am only advocating that if the majority determine a business is needed at this time then it should be needed by all states, so when a state determines it’s their time to shut down or take precautions then they leave the same essential business open. If something is essential, no law or right can change that and no Governor or President should be able to change it either. It’s either essential or it isn’t. Being able to protect yourself is very essential but it was essential in March last year as well. I have to admit it scares me a little bit thinking of all the new gun owners who can’t get training right now or worse won’t. Many of whom wouldn’t be able to protect themselves with or without a gun. It’s like picking up a knife and not knowing how you are going to use it or if you grabbed a knife that is just going to cut your own hand when you stab into something with resistance. I am not knowledgeable enough of what should or should not be open to keep us alive, so I definitely won’t say what business is needed or not, I am sure almost any business can site reasons they should be open. There is no doubt every decision made is right and wrong in this case and those making the decisions will be blamed more than they are applauded, I don’t envy the job and I surely don’t want it. I just bought a new gun yesterday and I did it because I wanted it, will I be safer tomorrow for it? Probably not, it would have to be a worst-case scenario(which could happen at any time), and even then would there even be enough ammo or a way to get the ammo for new gun owners. My local stores only offer one box of ammo at a time right now. So is it essential, for me no, for the majority of the people maybe I can’t answer that.

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Three cheers!!!

Excellent point. How are we safer
 and why is it Walmart or other large big box stores can be open but the government forced other businesses to close. (Government picking winners and losers)
Excellent point as well on the stores being open. It is the business owner’s choice, and it is the customer’s choice to enter and conduct business or not. Free will.

Another excellent point. When we look to ‘consensus’ such as a ‘consensus of scientists’ when in fact it is not, who state climate change is caused by man
 we end up with more political tyranny and removal of the Rule of Law.

All points should be reviewed and considered
 and we all may find something within other views, that may have a value and a valid point.

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Somebody 35 says he would choose life over rights well don’t forget all the lives that were given so you have the right to choose

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I am not sure where you live at but in Michigan. The only mom and pop stores that closed were the ones that choose to. Even the restaurants that closed had the option to stay open if they wanted to do take out and/or delivery. The main businesses we seen shut down were the bars, salons, manufacturing, office jobs, and restaurants that didn’t want to do take out.

Now we have seen everything opening except bars, salons, and those restaurants that choose to close. I think we were one of the hardest-hit states and slower to open than many because of it. I agree with you what would be the difference between a store that allows ten people compared to one that allows 1000.

What we have experienced more than anything is confusion. One of the executive orders from our Governor was to stop big box stores from selling in non-essential areas in April to limit the amount of time people were in the store due to people waiting to get in the store for groceries. Many people believe that these items couldn’t be sold anywhere in the state and didn’t realize that gardening stores and stores that specialized in one or two areas were still allowed to be open and selling the goods due to the fact the order was only for big boxed stores like Wal-mart. Some stores chose to close but I was still able to buy from their competitors. Out of our three gun stores, one stayed open the whole time and took no precautions the other two closed for a couple of weeks one redid the store to put up some plexiglass and other protective equipment to protect their employees, while the third put in a plan to limit people in the store and meet everyone at the door to take their orders, except gun buyers could come in and check out their guns.

I think here at least perception has been the biggest problem. I am neither Democrat or Republican so I come in on both sides of the issues. I have to do a lot more research to get to the truth of a situation because you never get a clear view from the political post but I found no matter what was being stated it was always partially misinformed or just plan exaggerated. People were screaming they were locked in, while I was going fishing, boating, did some gardening, minor landscaping and some home repairs, shopping, and to the gun range. I was able to but didn’t go hiking, walking, or visit family(I rarely do).

The biggest problem I had was getting ammo, my local stores would only sell one box, and one store would only sell one box if I bought another gun from them. It’s much cheaper online anyway but that was hard to find. It’s relaxed some now but still hard to get the deals on practice ammo I want. Either way in the end this will be a small fraction of our life and living with it sucks worse for others I guess. I hope everyone stays safe, and I find it’s always best to focus on what you can do, and just do what you want. I don’t have to go to the bar to drink, being a guy I don’t need a salon, and other than red lobster I really don’t like restaurant food it always tastes better when I make it. What’s essential or what’s not is different for everyone I guess, I look at it this way, if I don’t need it to survive, then it’s not essential for me.

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And yet
 there were those who basically outlawed ‘fishing’, and put an end to trips to the park. Each state had it’s own tyrannical rules they put in place

Yes, even where I am, there were restaurants open for carry out, but not all restaurants are set up for that and the costs to try to operate as take out only is sometimes prohibitive.

I tend to err on the side of freedom and liberty.

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Regarding the virus lockdown in Massachusetts a Federal judge ruled (IIRC in early June) that the Governor’s order that gun shops be closed was a violation of 2nd Amendment rights and ordered that they be allowed to open.