After thinking about it a little more, it will be determined by police, DA, Grand Jury or Jury. All that means is that you really never have any good choices. All you can do is try to do the right thing during a few seconds time frame and hope for the best which is a problem for me. With the political climate it matters what state or city this happens in. In a place like Texas or Florida I would definitely expect no charges. In my own state of NC I have no idea. It is like Nathans argument about imminent. Is that someone coming at you or someone else with an aimed gun or is it the definition that I gave that says âsomething dangerous seen as menacingly nearâ? To me it was a good shoot and also can understand others that believe differently.
But the problem is someone else will decide whether it was really a threat. Not the person trying to stop the threat that he perceived at the time. I couldnât rightfully say that he was no threat while running away with a drawn gun in his hand. I do not know if he is running for cover for more assaults or Disney World. I do know that he committed a crime with a gun and could very well return for more. It is a tough call but I would be leaning toward taking the shot. At the same time, I would become religious and start praying.
That might be how it goes. If you attack someone, and then are you done, and you turned around and are walking away, itâs probably not legal for them to then attack you. Self defense vs seeking vengeance or retribution or what have you.
Not a lawyer, check your local listings, recommend only using lethal force when what is likely going to happen if you donât use it is worse than facing a jury that could put you in prison for life
I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. As you pointed out whether or not the threat was imminent enough to act on will be decided by the DA and or the jury so will be open to significant interpretation by people with a wide array of beliefs and understanding. Many will likely have no idea what it takes for a person to successfully defend themselves and how easy it is for an attacker to do significant harm.
My understanding is that in a self defense situation for a threat to be considered imminent a reasonable person would have to have a reasonable belief that the threat had the intent, ability and opportunity to cause severe bodily harm or death to yourself or other innocent people immediately or in a reasonably imminent amount of time. Again open to interpretation.
So if the threat says Iâm going across the street to my home to get my gun so I can come back to shoot you, you likely would have a hard time justifying shooting them before they enter their home even though they might only be 10 seconds or less away from being able to carry out that threat. Though as soon as they get to their door and look like they are reaching for a weapon many reasonable people would likely assume they were acting to fulfill the threat and now had the ability to do so. Though many reasonable people would also question why you didnât use those 10 seconds to get away from the threat.
Now if the person said Iâm going to run by you and go in your house to kill your kids I think most people would find it reasonable to assume the threat was imminent as soon as they moved towards your home even if it would take the threat 10 or 20 or 30 plus seconds to get to your kids.
You could also be currently under attack by a person who threatened your life. They have expressed their intent and have the opportunity because they are already hitting you but if they are clearly unarmed and significantly smaller and weaker than you are many people would likely argue that they donât present an actually threat of severe bodily harm or death because they donât have the physical ability to harm you. Though even a significantly weaker person could knock you off balance making you fall and if your head hits the pavement you could easily be significantly harmed or killed. Not to mention that just because a person is smaller and weaker than you doesnât mean they donât have the skills to take you out with their bare hands. The martial arts gym I go to has several people significantly smaller and lighter than I am who can easily take me out if they wanted to. So again there is a lot of room for interpretation.
It all comes down to if you and your lawyer can convince the people judging you that your interpretation of an imminent threat was a reasonable one.
I agree with just about everything you said, but this guy had a gun in his hand and already committed a crime. I donât know whether he saw the guy come out of his car with the gun but if he did then who knows what could have happened from the thiefs side of things but I guess it is what someone thinks imminent is. And clearly we all probably have several different ones according to the situation. Personally, I donât want someone to have to have a gun pointed at me before I draw mine. It is too late by that time. I agree completely with your last line but even that can change from state to state, city to city, and juror to juror. That is what makes self defense scary, but I do believe in trying to do what is right, scary or not.
You canât shoot a person who isnât a threat to you or others. Especially in the back, also you canât see beyond well enough to guarantee your bullet doesnât cause death or injury. Means, motive, and opportunity.
Hello and welcome @Davin
welcome @Davin
Welcome aboard
Good guy with a gun? Yes
Bad situational awareness? Yes
The perp was in no way a threat to the victim or the âgood guy with a gunâ at the point where he was shot. Did the victim get his wallet back? Probably
At the expense of a few bucks, a driverâs license and how many years in jail. In this case, the intentions were honorable but legally (me not being a lawyer) he made a big mistake.
I hope his family will appreciate him when they visit.
I heard years ago about people carrying a 2nd wallet. The only thing in was a $20 bill. When asked for your wallet you toss that one on the ground and run the other way.
I did this on my first trip to Central America though I carried all the cash I would need for the day plus a little extra, a credit card with a very low spending limit and an old ID that had an address I only lived in for a short while many years ago. This way if I was cornered and forced to hand over my wallet they would assume they got the real thing.
Now I carry a throw down money clip with a little bit of cash and the credit card I will be using for the day. That way if a thief observes me pumping gas or buying groceries they will only see me using the money clip and hopefully assume that is my only wallet. My real wallet usually only comes out in the privacy of my home or vehicle when I have to add more cash to the money clip.
Not too smart, thatâs a good way to end up in prison.
Guy pulled a âsmollettâ and lost.
The âGood Samaritan shooting a fleeing fake attacker probably wonât help him if this ever goes to court.
Especially if the Houston DA is a lib. A jury may see otherwise however.
How the âsupposedâ victims have not been charged with MURDER is concerning to me however. May be that it was not considered a felony? IDK
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
Why did he leave??? That can make a good shoot go to a bad shoot instantly.
Personally, I wouldnât have shot since he was running away. It just depends on what politics the ADA on duty subscribes too. Hope he has good lawyers.
Welcome to our Family @Jesse86
Thank you.
Glad to be here.