"God" Given Rights?

@Dawn. :slightly_smiling_face: :clap:
Thank you for your input. That’s exactly what I was missing trying to explain my point of view.

If someone follows this thread carefully he/she can find that I have used “respect” word 4 times already.
Anyway… I’m glad we have this conversation here. Even we can have different understanding of the Bible, we stand together to defend our rights. “God” given or “Men” given - doesn’t matter. We’re all on the same side.

:v:

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@dawn, not a pushback, just something to study- 2 Timothy 3:16. God inspired men to write God’s message. It is understandable that folks come to the conclusion you did because they neglect to truly study the Scriptures.

@Sower, I didn’t necessarily say I believed that or didn’t believe it. :wink: It’s one of the things I struggle with in my search for belief.

But I do know that man has done so many terrible things in the name of God - the Crusades is one of the biggest examples of that.

Anyone can do something and say it’s in the name of God or God told them to.

Also, how many accounts of Christ’s life were there? Why were the ones in the Bible chosen while others weren’t? How many variations of the Bible have been manipulated to fit what the Church wanted to do or to allow the leadership of the Church to keep their power (or take more power)?

As we’ve seen in American politics, power corrupts. How much of the Bible has been corrupted by man’s search for power?

(I could talk about this all day - it’s not saying your wrong, they’re just questions I’ve had during my search for belief.)

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“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

“Endowed by their Creator”. It is easy to become ensnarled in the semantics of this phrase, and many have been so. It has been cited to prove that the Founders, usually meaning Thomas Jefferson and the other contributors to the Declaration of Independence, were devout Christians and wrote from such a perspective. I have also heard it cited to prove they were Deists rather than traditional Christians, as well as any number of other, less orthodox beliefs.

To my mind, the Declaration of Independence ranks amongst the greatest documents in world history. It is a document that can be read several different ways and each of the ways would be correct. It was at once a challenge, boldly made to one of the most powerful monarchs in the world, and a statement of intent, and a rationale. It also laid the groundwork for a new way, or at least a renewed way, of structuring a government that ruled from the bottom up rather than from the top down.

Last, but in no way least, it was a call for support, a plea to all the people of the American colonies. These men we now name “The Founders”,needed to gather as much support as possible from every corner of the settled lands to have any hope of succeeding. To that end the Declaration was written in such a way as to also serve as call to arms. It stated clearly the intended course of action, gave the reasoning behind the decision to act, and provided at least some hints at the type of government to be formed in the new country.

The most important of these foundational principles was the idea that all persons had certain rights, and that they held these rights from the very beginnings of human existence. These rights pre-existed any human authority, be it king or priest or warlord, and as such, any government must first proclaim and protect these rights before all else. To deny or apportion or curtail these rights was nothing less than tyranny.

When they described these rights as having been “endowed by their Creator”, they were telling the king that he had no legitimate authority to grant or withhold them. At the same time they were saying to the people, from the aristocrats to the peasants, that all of them and each of them had these rights as birth-rights, not to be denied. “Endowed by their Creator” was language that anyone could understand and allowed them to each see their own God behind the words. It put these rights into a class unassailable by mortal men and proved the wickedness of those who tried to take them away. The specific religious beliefs of the writers, or the readers, was less important than the broader idea that there are powers beyond human understanding through which humanity has been individually invested with these certain rights.

Life. Liberty, The pursuit of happiness. These are the underpinnings of what it means to be a human being, Fueled by free will, they are what separates humans from mere self-perpetuating biology. The protection and perpetuation of these rights is what separates legitimate governance from tyranny and despotism. It separates those who want to lead from those who want to rule.

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Our rights did not come from our Founding Fathers. Read what they wrote and said. The right to keep and bear arms and self-defense has a long and storied history, all the way back to “Biblical times”. Thomas Hobbes and John Locke wrote about Natural Laws and Natural Rights. It is their writings that influenced Jefferson and the others. Reading the logical progression to conclude that self-preservation is natural and a natural right to defense of self, succinctly stated, by any means necessary, therefore the RKBA shall not be infringed, makes the argument quite clear.

Natural Laws and Rights do not come from Man nor from government. All creatures innately have self-preservation, and therefore, a self-defense mechanism. Man and government do not control what means of self-preservation and defense are used by other creatures. Only in Man do we seek to limit the means of self-defense. That is illogical. Should the weak be culled by the strong? That is the result of limits on our RKBA.

If not for the Colonists having access to arms, which the Brits sought to remove by force, our history would be like the other British colonies, many did not see independence until sometime after WWII. And that might not even have happened, since WW II might have turned out quite a bit differently without the USA being in existence with the means to build a huge military able to defeat the Axis powers.

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