@Sidecarr9, One again my apologizes. I’ve should started a new thread, haven’t thought my 2 cents about “rights” would change the topic completely 
3 Likes
Psalms has plenty “interpretations “, but I would suggest Luke 11:21, Nehemiah 4:17, and do not forget when Jesus stated, “Now sell your cloak and satchel and buy a sword.” He sent them out to preach his word, and telling them to arm themselves.
2 Likes
Our Founding Fathers considered the right to be a Natural Right, in their minds it was given to us by our Creator, not granted to us by a king or government, it predated all of that. Some of our Founders were not the most religious people, but they did not argue that this right was granted long before there were rulers or a government. The Second Amendment states this, and it says that there shall be no restrictions thereof. I do believe in restricting this right to those who have committed violent crimes, used illegal drugs, tend to have drinking problems (anyone who has abused the right) and have mental problems, but other than that, Molon Labe.
There are passages in both the Old and New Testament that would indicate that self defense, the defense of others and home defense are permissible. (But I am not a biblical scholar.) Remember 2000 years ago, there were no guns. Swords and Knives were the tool of the day. Considering we currently live under the ‘Grace’ of God through Christ, Christ, in the Garden, asked his disciples if they had a sword, the word there means short sword, a defensive weapon as opposed to a two-handed battle sword. Two disciples said they did, and Christ responded that was enough, which could mean not everyone needs to have one, but some people should. Christ also says that anyone who does not have a sword should sell one of his coats and buy one. Some people believe that if you believe in God, God will protect you. I believe God gives us protection, but one form of that protection could be the ‘God Given’ right to protect ourselves.
You can find a decent amount of posts on this topic at God, Family & Guns on youtube.
3 Likes
Thx @Dawn. It was impossible to focus on answers to original post 
1 Like
The right and ability to defend oneself is fundamental in continued existence as failure to do so can and will remove oneself from existence (as happens in all living things) so if one believes in intelligent design one must believe that self defense is an ability and right given to us by our Creator
I personally believe in the GOD of the Bible and by grace I have everything I need in this life and that includes the ability and the willingness if left no other recourse to defend all that I hold dear
One last point if one believes in GOD and what the Bible says one cannot escape that as HIS creation everything we have came from HIM
4 Likes
Bible also states blessed are the peacemakers. To me that means try to be peaceful towards others, while being willing to PROTECT the peace as well.
4 Likes
200 some years ago, and they put our present day and higher educated( what a joke) politicians to SHAME!!!, If they were here today I’m sure they would be sick to thier stomachs to see what they RISKED EVERYTHING for being taken and willingly given away by thier own citizens, I’m ashamed for dishonoring them
2 Likes
Most veterans like me feel like we fought and some died after we took the oath to protect the constitution. We did this either by being drafted many years ago, to volunteering like I did. And now they think they can REMOVE the very rights we are sworn to protect. I had family that DIED to protect these very rights.
6 Likes
Brian, I can’t understand how and why so many willingly become sheep, believing That big Brother will take care of them no matter what,it AMAZES me, police are quite open about not being able to protect everyone and promote that people arm themselves and learn to use gun properly and safely. Was it FRANKLIN that said those who are willing to give up some freedom for safety DESERVES NEITHER!!!
5 Likes
Yes, Franklin said that.
1 Like
If I were an artist I’d do an oil of the founders similar to the one where they show the signing of The Declaration looking at the “document” simply stating 'This is what we did with the Republic you fought and died for" dated 2020.
Of course, they’d all be weeping.
2 Likes
OMG That would be FANTASTIC, I would buy that in a heartbeat,!!! I’ll go one better I’ll donate to have them printed, uscca can sell them,I have NO DOUBT they would go like crazy
2 Likes
Having read this from top to bottom with all the statements to for and against I have pretty much concluded that the only God given rights we have are those that occur between our ears.
The only God given right I can determine is our ability to reason and have cognitive thought. All else is a right of man. Life, liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness is only attainable by our thoughts and the actions of other men (people for those of you offended by gender terms). Life is a product of living and directly the product of two compatible living things, Liberty is a perception which we cognitively perceive or desire BECAUSE we can think and reason. The pursuit of happiness is no less so. Man does not, nor can they, give us thought, reason or intellect Man does not give us fear, happiness, compassion, empathy, love, hate or sympathy that is our behavior based on experience. Granted some “behaviors” are learned as a product of our environment such as racism, sexism… fill in the isim’s and obia’s.
As a Christian I believe that Jesus died on the cross in forgiveness of our sins. That said as a realist, amateur historian and general observer of human nature I think that the bible is a nice collection of stories collected to teach us “preferred” rules of general conduct with that whole specter of SIN to keep us in line (Via the Catholic Church). The stories of the bible have changed from telling to telling over the millennia and from scribe to translator to scribe to arrive at a desired message based on the opinions of who ever is in charge at the time of that writing. Organized religion is first and foremost a business, never forget that simple fact. Even the Holy Roman Catholic Church learned a thing or two from Luther the Protestants and dare I say King James and along the way caused the deaths of more people than any disease or geographical war in the history of mankind (probably combined).
God gave us the right of cognitive thought, reason and intellect. All the rest of it WE created as a product of that. The challenge (I imagine) from God is to see what we can do with it.
My $0.02 and worth what you paid for it.
Cheers,
Craig6
2 Likes
Let me just toss this in. Something being a right as expressed in our BOR doesn’t mean someone has to provide them to you, it simply means the gov’t is prohibited from infringing on them.
It’s up to us to neither simply surrender them but to actively fight not to lose them.
God given, depends on your perspective but God helps those who help themselves. God also gives us as you sat our own minds with the ability to reason, he also gives us freewill so it’s up to us to decide if it’s worthwhile to fight for them.
2 Likes
I value your opinion, truly I do. And I don’t agree with some of the things you said, but that’s fine. If everybody thought the same way, the world would be VERY boring. So, in other words we can agree to disagree on some of your points.
1 Like
Check this out, just what we’re talking about
1 Like
@Jerzees, sorry, but you can’t ignore the context and insert your own. Jesus (God) was dispatching the apostles for the purpose of spreading the Gospel (Mat 10:5-7). He told them to arm themselves because those who reject Him will persecute them Mat 10:16-23), (They hated the apostles because they hated Jesus.) Luke 22:36 was one of the last things Jesus told the apostles to do before His crucifixion.
Selling a garment and buying a sword has no input into the meaning of your interpretation. The verses you share speak of theological division. The instructions for self defense were given to protect themselves from those who would seek to kill them because of the theological division.
1 Like
This thread will be never-ending “battlefield”
I respect every kind of interpretation of the Bible. (OK… every - means the ones which make sense and actually follows Catholic Church).
I’m far away from being a bigot, but I’ve learnt a lot living in poor catholic country.
Maybe it’s just my understanding, or interpretation made by people I love (and yes, I’ve got Catholic priests in my Family) but there is no clear meaning of weapon / sword in the Bible.
Perhaps the reason we look into this from different perspective is that we grew up in different culture?
Guns haven’t been part of my life for 35 years. Now it is differently - I’ve got a gun, my Family has guns… but it doesn’t change my thinking.
Referring to Luke 22:36… the whole meaning is contained in 22:35 - 38 (single verse disrupts proper understanding)… so the meaning is:
Jesus recognized the right to defend our life and the lives of loved ones. You have to look for defense not in arms, but in God, which is why he stated that two swords are enough to justly defend his life.
Two swords are mentioned in 22:38
“Sword” is not really 
here…
I hope its not a battlefield, because understanding the Bible is a lot easier than most think. Most folks never try, or ask someone to help them because they’re afraid of having to answer to God. Remember, He came to seek and to save, not to condemn (that’s coming later). So many people try to read their own meaning into the Word of God. They come to it with preconceived imaginary notions before they even digest what’s plainly presented in black and white. One of the primary rules of Bible interpretation is- if the simplest sense makes the most sense, there’s no sense looking for any other sense. No matter the culture, there is only one meaning. God did not invent confusion. Confusion occurrs when individuals interpret God’s Word in their own “special” way. Yes, there are symbols in the Bible. Many of them. But the interpretation of the symbol is found in the Bible, not in our imagination. The Greek word “machaira” found in Luke 22:38 means “sword, large knife.” Yes, it is a sword. God said it, He meant it, I believe it. While our discussion may not settle the debate regarding the right to self defense, God did not forbid it. If it were sin, He would have said so. I’d love to chat more, but, Goodnight.
Keep in mind, Jesus also said “Ye must be born again” (John 3)
1 Like
This may be a very unpopular thing to say, but it’s something to consider… truly consider. It is not meant to bash anyone’s beliefs or views. In fact, it may strengthen your views by questioning them.
Guns are not discussed in the Bible as they didn’t exist at the time. AR’s are not discussed in the Second Amendment as they did not exist at the time.
The Bible is written by men who believed in their God. The Constitution was written by men who also believed in their God and that people inherently had rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Both were written by human MEN. (That’s where I expect to get the most pushback.) The writers of the Constitution realized that power changes men - and wanted to make sure that all had equal power to defend themselves.
Just a different view to consider.
4 Likes