Ex-military gripe

I know I’m just bitching to bitch, but i also think it is slightly harmful too. Just because you served in the military, doesn’t mean you’re up-to-date with firearms, the differences and/or even a great shot.
I was a cook in the Army, and I shot my rifle when I was in BCT, that was it. And yes, I served during 9/11, except I served, on base, stateside. I always joke being a 92G was just a paid KP, however it was almost very real in my case. When I got out of the Army, in ‘04 I moved back in with my parents, who still are, extremely anti-guns, and when you can throw kitchen knives well, it never became a necessity.
When I moved to NV. in 2017, I became interested in them, EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM; their history, how to make them, and anything in between. It is now 2020, and I’ve been a gun owner for about a year or so. I’m still learning, and now I’m teaching other the wee but of information I have. However when I purchased my first firearm, I was given no guidance because it was assumed that I knew everything that I should know, which is dangerous. Now thank god I’m no longer 23, and a fresh out, because I can see a cocky ex-military Pvt. or PFC, who was a 92a, being to afraid to admit he’d only handed out tanks and other class fours (class three?), but didn’t do much in the way of shooting.
That’s it, that’s my gripe. I know I might catch shit for it, but F it. I’m used to creating Charly Foxtrots.

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I understand your comment that it is assumed people that are/were military know about firearms, and that is not necessarily true. But just like you, those interested in learning have resources to aid in their learning. I assume that is why you are here.

Self-defense and firearms training is a life-long pursuit. I believe those that are here, are here because we know we do not know everything, and want to continue to learn, or begin learning, as you do. Everyone has their own level of proficiency, and some will train and practice more than others, but the end goal is knowledge and ability. No one was an expert the first time he/she first began. What matters is that we are willing to learn.

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Please understand I wasn’t saying anything about the people here, just in general and mostly at gun ranges and firearm stores. I’m here because I want to learn and be protected when something goes bump in the night and I reach for the Dragons Breath instead of the buckshot (joke).

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Difficult to make assumptions about people in those instances. If they are at the range, presumably they are there to train/practice and improve. At a gun store, they may be like you were, just taking their first steps into firearm ownership. When I am at the range and I see people that lack knowledge/ability, I frequently will offer assistance. It makes for a better, safer, more enjoyable experience for them. If they learn something, even better. We were all newbies once.

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That’s my point. It annoys me that people assume that just because you served in the military you…just like they assumed with me.

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It is the Marine Corps fault. You see, every Marine is at least a rifleman. What does this mean? I was a diesel Mechanic in the Marine Corps but, I was also a Machine gunner too. I qualify with the rifle every year( M16 A2 ) then we trained with other field weapons too. I had jungle warfare training and mountain warfare training when I was not turning wrenches This is just how the Marine Corps is different in many ways. We had a cook that was a really good marksman. Not only that but, for some reason Marines to not become Ex-Marines, or even former Marines because there is no such thing, once a Marine, Always a Marine. Just ask one, he will tell you.

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I completely understand where you’re coming from. I served on board submarines. We did our annual quals and only carried firearms in Port. My firearm knowledge has almost exclusively come from the civilian side. I was fortunate enough to do a CQB course but it was taught by civilians.

Now by situational awareness that was absolutely driven into me from the military. I still stop talking and listen when announcements are made in stores. I still look for weaknesses and vulnerabilities. I have that casualty state of mind. Casualties being both loss of life and equipment failure.

Great post. I know it’s difficult to get this point across

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Don’t downplay your MOS. One of the best shots I ever knew was a 92G. We tried to get him to switch to combat arms, but he wasn’t interested. Shot perfect every year, though, and could drill one round right into the next. By doctrine, though, the cooks and MPs are the last line of defense if a base is overrun, so it always made me feel better that one of them knew what he was doing. (If the cooks are doing the fighting, you know we’re in trouble.)

I’ll second what you said that not everyone in the military can shoot. I’ve seen that, too.

More on point to USCCA, I think, would be that the military doesn’t necessarily teach you home defense. I can grab any two random 11Bs and they can probably make a half decent team. Give me four and they can probably clear rooms very effectively. But that doesn’t mean any of them are proficient with lone defense tactics, concealed carry, or legal obligations.

I get in trouble on this from both sides. I’ve gotten pretty humble about what I don’t know. On the other hand, I don’t feel like I need to un-learn everything the Army taught me, either. I’m a lot better at taking solicited advice from other gun owners than I am from taking pitches from sales clerks at the gun store.

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Great point, I think some of the group or small team tactics can be molded into good solo tactics. Like you said don’t need to unlearn stuff just learn a different way to apply it.

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My cousin was in the Navy. He still can’t swim.

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@Schef you are not wrong. I got my CCW on the “military clause” and was glad I didn’t have to take a “stupid course”. I was the exception to the rule and was exposed to some world class firearms training from both top civilian and military shooters (and I was a Corpsman, Medic in Army speak). I have carried concealed for 34 years (did I just say that out loud :confounded:) but until about 10 years ago I knew next to ZERO about the LAWS of personal defense in the civilian community. The Gubbment teaches you to kill people and break sh!t which is cool if that is your job OVER THERE. That doesn’t work in the HERE world. A truly AWARE CC individual is probably more inclined to get OUT of a situation rather than to engage because the civilian ROE (Rules of Engagement) are much different and have significantly MORE consequences than in the military, out here once you get past criminal you then have to face CIVIL court.

I will take all the military benefits I can get but the more I learn the less support I have for the “military clause” for bypassing the CCW course but then again some of the courses I have observed are VERY light on law.

Cheers,

Craig6

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I think that the important thing is that you realized what you didn’t know, and worked to correct it. Somehow I don’t think a lot of the new gun owners will even take qualified instruction. THAT really scares me.

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Did not hear a thing :grin:

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Supposition without fact is just an opinion. Yes, emotions can make people fearful. Most of the people I trained had no knowledge of firearms until I trained them. Several of them weren’t even interested in learning until after I talked to them. We have a responsibility to inform the ignorant and teach those willing to learn.

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Leave no stone unturned - if you’re after history, read the bios of Bill Jordan and Elmer Keith. Jordan was a 30-year veteran of of the Border Patrol, an exhibition shooter, and his No Second Place Winner is a book on modern gunfighting that’s required reading at the BP Academy. Elmer Keith - the father of magnum handgunning - was a prolific gun writer. When you shop, try to get the annual gun buyer’s guide from Peterson Publishing - I believe that they put out monthly mags like Rifle and Handloader, among others on handguns and shotguns. Kurt17

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@Dave17 I never presented it as fact dude. That’s why I said “I think”. It always was nothing but MY opinion.

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Thank you. And my wife just went “shit, you’re buying more books about guns aren’t you”.

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I have a friend like that. I guess that’s a thing…

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I was trained in handling guns at an early age. My dad was a hunter before his military life. I remember walking through to woods very early as a boy with my brothers. I loved hunting. I had handled just about everything.

Going to the range in basic was crazy seeing all of those men that had never handled a gun. It was hard humbling myself to the point of acting like I didn’t know what I was doing to avoid harassment. I put it where it realy counts, marksmanship. Expert with no problem.

Originally I signed up for 11B. I got delayed because of stitches on my trigger finger. I tried to slip by but got caught. The earliest thing I could do was FA 13B. We nearly lived in the field so we frequented the range. Our BN CMDR was SF in Nam. I qualified on 8” and 155mm howitzers and M60 and .50 cal. We always had our weapons. I always wanted a gun after I left active duty. Finally got to a point I could afford it. I’ve had my shotgun since 2001. I got a handgun a few years ago on the cheap. And then I bought an AR-15. Love it. I’ve taught my kids and wife how to handle them. Still have to train my wife not to look down the barrel. My son motivated me to finally breakdown and buy a handgun and get LTC. He sort of learned how to handle his handgun after he bought it about 3 to 6 months before me.

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Very true - your opinion, that is what I stated.

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