It would certainly stop a large number of shooters, but yet, it would also attract a number of shooters, but I believe that it would draw far fewer shooters that are those wanting to die in a suicide by cop situation, or another way of saying it like death by cop as many say.
To have given the response I initially gave, I was not really thinking thru all the circumstances re: the shooting in El Paso, TX. yesterday. There are likely many circumstances that will never come out because of the way different law Enforcement agencies handle this type of incident. There many also be issues that are or could never be made public for many reasons. Not being a Law Enforcement Officer any longer, I am not really willing to jump into the heads of the on scene officers and ultimately the investigators that do the follow through for the district attorney as to making the specific charges that will ultimately be filed.
I didn’t want to read it and won’t go into depth, first he kicked off stating he supports the Christchurch shooting, then he goes off on the border being unsecured and migrants coming in. Then he starts in on both the democratic and republican parties, that’s about all I could take. Left me shaking my head.
I cannot believe that didn’t raise a flag to anyone in the parking lot. Who just sits there and watches.
Part of the reason these things didn’t happen “back in the day” was because people weren’t scared to get involved. 20 yrs ago anyone think this guy makes it to the door? It’s not all a parenting problem or a millennial problem its OUR problem and the citizens need to get in the game and turn it around. This isn’t going away, it isn’t going to get better.
This guy didn’t just wake up today and randomly decide I’m gonna go do this today. Someone knew something was off, this PC I don’t wanna get involved garbage has to end. People writing stupid posts on social media should absolutely get questioned. I’m not saying you don’t have the right to speak your mind. But hate filled posts and threats should absolutely be a huge red flag. Every other right has to be used responsibly use the first responsibly also.
We live in a different world and it’s never going to go back to the “good ol days”.
There’s a quote I’ve always enjoyed to focus on before going to the range or the gym or training class. I’ve always thought it was a little to intense for everyday life but this last week has been my final straw.
Its contagious… be extra careful the next couple weeks.
I put some information and links to more info about how coverage of one shooting sparks others, how it’s the media coverage facilitating that, and what could be done to stop it over here:
I’m waiting for info on the Dayton shooter. Thank God officers put him down quickly.
I’m 68. And the comment that mass shootings used to be few and far between is correct. The mass shooting at the University of Texas in Austin in the 60s was a shocking anomaly. The autopsy on the shooter showed he had a brain tumor. Guns were available. People in this country were different somehow. What changed?
in large part, its the media coverage that changed… there’s some interesting study data showing it’s the 24-7 coverage that spawns the clusters of shootings like we have right now.
if you scroll up a couple replies, I posted another thread with links to data about what the actual frequency change is over the last 30 years, and it isn’t actually trending up… but the news coverage is, and the coverage causes clusters, and then we get a very different perception of what’s happening than we used to.
That doesn’t mean I think we don’t have a problem - we surely do. We need to understand causes and what can be done to address the root cause. But part of the root cause is how the media coverage is done and the increase of shootings in response to media coverage.
Interesting to notice that both Gilroy and El Paso were in gun-free zones, and the Chicago shootings were in a state with extreme gun control laws. Interesting to note that the El Paso shooter apparently drove over 600 miles to get to his gun-free zone. Interesting to note that the media coverage has been dramatic and increasing in drama with each one, and they’re getting closer together.
Going on record as saying it isn’t all about what’s wrong with our kids, or what’s wrong with parents, or what’s wrong with people who see a problem forming and don’t address it… it’s a lot about what’s wrong with the media.
People changed. Family breakdown caused by an economy no longer allowing one parent to work a single full time job to support his/her family. Now both parents are having to work, sometimes two jobs to make ends meet. Many forgo babysitters and/or daycare because of the costs of such, instead televisions and device screens babysit kids for hours upon hours.
Religious beliefs are spurned and mocked rather than used to establish a moral compass. Often parents are also working during traditional church hours. (I didn’t capitalize “church” so as to use it in a generic form encompassing multiple faiths.)
Additionally society is no longer teaching people that it’s simply ok to disagree with each other. More and more society is preaching that “if you don’t agree with me then you are my enemy.”
There’s also some other things i could touch on, politics and potential conspiracy theories.
The simple fact is that society is breaking down. History is repeating itself. “The Roman empire is falling once again.”
Sheepdog you’re correct in that it is never just one thing. Violent video games, absent parents, a lack of morals and respect for others…the list is long. Your point about others getting involved to stop a shooting is a good one. In the training I’ve received for dealing with active shooters we trained to 1. Lock them out, 2. Get out, 3. Take them out. There isn’t a specific order. How you respond is dictated by the situation.
Yes. You bring up another key point with your foc6on the Media’s quest to up their ratings. I would like to steer the question back to my original one. What can we, the gun community, do to help stem this violence that takes innocent lives and endangers our 2A rights?
I understand not going into a building and trying to clear it. But this A hole walked right thru the front door of a busy walmart. People saw him coming.
Alot of my frustration came from seeing posts on social media and how many people would’ve stopped him. I’m willing to bet there was someone in that walmart that posted some, I’d do this or that garbage. And they let him walk thru the front door.
You’ll find it’s a very small percentage of civilians who would actually take a shot at another human. Especially someone with no training at all. They are more likely to freeze no matter how justified it is.
A more proactive approach is more education to the general public about responsible armed citizens. I am not talking about the politicians because you will never change their rhetoric, but the everyday citizen who needs to know the gun free zones are no more than target rich opportunities. The criminals are not going to abide by the gun free zone rules or the gun acquisition rules. Gun free zones do not work. Simple education of the populace needs to be our battle lines by any means necessary.