We can train to hit at a distance without our sights, but that doesn’t mean it’s the best option for a critical dynamic incident. If your attacker is 20 ft from you and running at you with knife, a cinderblock wall behind him and no other person around, unsighted fire might be ok. But if other people are around, you need to be as precise as you can with your shots. Which is where using your sights becomes incredibly important.
Not sure I’d agree with that especially once you get outside of 7yds (and even that might be questionable). Even front sight only training I’ve seen says it’s a no-go beyond 15yds.
As you correctly cite, you’re responsible for every round, why would you risk a round going astray when you’re in a high stress situation with adrenalin coursing through your body? No you don’t want to get tunnel vision, but you can train on avoiding that while still using sites.
And once you complete the draw (say 2sec) the attacker will have closed half of that distance…so you would still be point shooting at approx. 10ft……(which is fine IMO for unsighted).
I agree with you on a lot of what you said. I do disagree on the distance because I train at 15 yards unsighted. Anything more than that I do agree on the no-go for unsighted shooting. I train unsighted because I have problems with sights on my firearms. To help me with my unsighted shooting, I keep track of how many rounds I shoot and how many holes I put in my target. If I concentrate really hard I can do precision shooting but I’m not very good using sights.
I am still going with unsighted fire is a technique that is built out after getting sighted fire skills. I can’t imagine starting a student with that unless they have some specific limitations that prevent them using sights… and so far I’ve never seen that.
Kinesthetic knowledge of where your grip is, where your firearm is directed, and the relationship to a target is a skill worthy of developing but having that operate accurately enough to be the right choice, while under the influence of intense fear and adrenaline … especially when there are other non-bad-guy people in the environment… that takes a Really Large Amount of effective training and practice.
Just going with -> That’s an advanced skill.
Walk, then run. Sighted fire skills, then unsighted, point shooting and kinesthetic-based skills.
Unsighted is a No Go for me simply because of inaccurate follow up shots. Two sight pictures for every shot.
@Zee I have to agree to an extent. The reason I train that way is because that’s how I started learning since I taught myself. Kinesthetic shooting is what I started with and I’m working on getting even better with it. I will eventually get to where I can hit the same spot consistently.
If we look at the distance where defense shootings happen, its typically arms length to 12 ft. At the close end, unsighted fire is more likely to be what people do, and the deviation that occurs with unsighted fire is not so significant. As you get further out, or other circumstances like other people in the area complicate things, people typically need sights for defensive accuracy. There are a lot of factors and individual skills that go into knowing where that changeover needs to happen.
While unsighted fire at close range in a self-defense incident is something we can almost expect to happen, taking an unsighted shot at a distance with any innocent party near the attacker can get you in a world of legal trouble.
How would they know you’re shots were unsighted? You’ve publicly posted that’s how you train. And if an innocent is injured there’s a really good chance you’ll be held liable.
All shooting is a balance of speed and precision. Be sure you’re training for the appropriate amount of precision at a distance taking into consideration the variety of circumstances that may be involved when you have to defend yourself.
If you’re accommodating for a vision issue, that’s a whole different ballgame. But for the majority of people, sighted fire may be needed for precision self-defend and should be included in their training.
Knowing where you need to switch to sighted fire for more precise shots is important
@Dawn I agree with you training for sighed fire for precision shooting is needed. Innocent bystanders near a threat is also an issue. That’s why if you’re going to train unsighted fire like I do. You have to train at the point of making yourself capable of hitting your target and nothing else even under stress. Here’s an example of what I mean for sighted and unsighted. Innocent bystanders to the left and right of the target. Unsighted fire should be put in the target and should have no more than a 1 inch width going from pelvic area to the neck. Sighted fire and precision shots should be for threats taking a hostage. That precise shot should be towards the the threat aiming for the middle of the mouth, directly in the middle of the spine where both cross on the body. Yes knowing when we need to switch from sighted and unsighted is a must. At the same time we need to be responsibly armed, which means we hold ourselves at an extremely high standard during training and work to get better than what we are. We also need to hold ourselves at a much much higher standard for accountability.
I think there’s a lot more that plays into it - distance, your target, movement, weather, skill…
I can’t tell you when you need to switch to sighted fire, but you should definitely train for sighted fire as well as unsighted fire.
I train both ways. I’ve replaced both lenses due to cataracts, so my close vision requires a contact or readers. I practice with the readers, dominant eye, and without readers and close-up mono-vision lens in non-dominant eye. I’ve done both enough to be competent with either.
It’s not really a big deal with a pistol. A red-dot on the MSR works great without any glasses, so I definitely go master eye with it.
I agree, people need to train for both. Which I do, I just work more with unsighted because of the sights I have on my firearms. I need to take the time and get them switched out or find someone to teach me how to use the sights better than what I do.
You sound like you take your training seriously, and I think this is an awesome idea - nothing like some professional outside leverage to help you transition into new skills and find the holes in your existing ones.
I take it very seriously, I don’t like the thought of being the reason an innocent bystander gets shot. After seeing the video of 4+ police officers in New York shooting 8-9 people and only one was the target. The rest were innocent bystanders. After seeing that and the most the people received was sorry we shot you. I decided I was going to be better even without using sights.
I do not. I can hit targets no problem, but wouldn’t be able to see a weapon.