This in the Missouri news today:
Police in Warrenton arrested a man who posted a video on social media of himself licking merchandise at a Walmart story. Warrenton is 55 miles west of St. Louis.
So yeah, I think it’s a 911 offense. Missouri is treating it as one. haven’t heard what he’s been charged with.
Unbelievably nasty people!
Pretty serious charges. Well deserved IMO.
So would that then be considered a reasonable use of force to draw on someone? He’s being charged with making terroristic threats, obstructing law, and harassment. In my eyes those charges mean someone could have drawn on him and held him there at gun point. Harassment is no joke neither are the other charges. I know in Jersey you wouldn’t be allowed to but in other reasonable states.
Not unless you can articulate why he presented a deadly danger to you. I.e., you are elderly, have respiratory or cardiac condition; or you ordered the guy to back off and he didn’t which told you he wanted to get physical beyond coughing on you.
The girl at the supermarket allegedly asked the man to back away to which he didn’t and then coughed in her face. The fact he’s being charged with obstructing the law to me means he was resisting or not cooperating with police. He also is being charged with terroristic threats. He may have very well been violent and I think in that circumstance drawing could have been warranted.
The car accident article involved police directly when he assaulted them. The guy in the other car was also being assaulted directly by the belligerent charged. Drawing could have been warranted there.
The guy who licked the deodorant, while disgusting, didn’t appear to actually threaten anyone so I couldn’t see drawing on him.
I think it also would have come down to what state you were in.
Am I right in that thinking or not?
IANAL but… Yeah, I think you have to be very careful if drawing in that situation.
The number one thing to consider is that defensive lethal force is only warranted when faced with a threat that will cause death or grave bodily harm. At this point, because most people survive just fine with mild symptoms I do not think it would qualify in most circumstances. Unless you were elderly or otherwise health compromised in some way.
I would compare it to a thrown punch. Generally, it is not considered lethal force because most people can take a hit or two without anything other than a bruise (unless there is a large disparity in force/skill). But if you punch an elderly person, even one punch can very much be a lethal so their rules of engagement might be different.
I’m not necessarily saying you can’t or shouldn’t, but be very clear on where your line is and how you would pass the “reasonable person” test for a judge/jury looking at the case weeks or months later.
This is one of the reasons I’ve added a less-than-lethal option to my carry these days. If someone coughs on me, they may not warrant getting shot but an assault like that is definitely going to get the hot-sauce in response. I’d apply similar assessment to a fight over TP or other supplies.
From the description of the incident, there is no way to tell. One thing is to be nasty and mean, and the other is to show pre-physical attack indicators. We weren’t there.
I fear in the coming days we will see more incidents like this, driven not by idiocy, but by actual terrorist intent.
I do have less lethal on me every day that I leave the house. My issue is I’m not at high risk but my wife is. She has and autoimmune disease and very high risk. So in defending my wife’s life I would feel warranted in drawing my firearm.
Make the little shits eat everything they coughed on. Better yet let me sneeze on some food and give it to they.
Yep nothing like an pre spring sinus sneeze to season their food with.