Cause and Effect - Constitutional cary and Crime Rates Drop

Utah. On February 12, 2021 , 2021 Utah Governor Spencer Cox signed HB60 into law (effective May 5, 2021) making Utah the 18th state to institute constitutional carry.

It sure doesn’t feel like crime is down , in my part of town anyway.
Do you think our Left Wing Chief of Police and our Left Wing Mayor would ever in a million years attribute the reduction in Crime to the passage of our Constitutional carry laws?

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Ohio is down in all but like two major cities. WINNING as Charlie Sheen would say!

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Constitutional carry should be associated with a government that has finally ceased to require a permission slip issued by some low-level LE official as a prerequisite to exercising one’s right to keep and bear arms, which is nominally guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment. It’s about freedom from petty government officials, not about some measure to fight crime.

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Really? You really believe that Constitutional Carry has nothing to do do with defending ones self against criminals? You my friend see things through an entirely different lens than I.

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Nope. If it was about crime fighting, citizens would be deputized and empowered to make arrests, cameras would be everywhere and street criminals would actually be prosecuted/ Government does not care at all about fighting crime, and does not care whether you are victimized. It only cares about being re-elected to cush government jobs for life. In the end government cannot fight crime as many crimes are crimes of opportunity (e.g., a robbery at a gas station at midnight in a dicey neighborhood) or passion (e.g., one spouse killing another or one gangbanger killing another for some slight).

Constitutional carry should be viewed and rightfully celebrated as a victory against petty government bureaucracies that inhibit the exercise of a fundamental individual right, not as a crime-fighting tool. Constitutional carry would be justified even if it had no effect on crime.

Very Confusing! You say, Constitutional Carry has nothing to do with protcing ones self against criminals, then you say the government can’t/won’t protect us from criminals? So WHO is going to protect me and mine against criminals? I say it’s ME, I’ll protect me and mine, constitutional Carry simply gives me another rather effective tool to do just that.

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Take constitutional out of the name. It’s your God given right to protect you and yours!

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You do and should have the ability to defend yourself and your family. But government has no obligation (or interest) to reduce crime or protect you from crime. It does not care whether you are victimized by crime. It’s not giving you the right to carry by enacting Constitutional carry in order to fight crime, it is doing so because it fears being “unelected” by a populus that has grown wearing of asking permission to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right.

If you believed you should carry a gun to protect yourself, you probably jumped through the hoops to get the government issued permission slip or carried without the permission slip. Constitutional carry probably did little to expand the numbers of those who carried for protection, but it is clearly a victory against a government that would deny individual rights. If it reduced crime, it reduced the numbers of non-permit holders who could have criminally prosecuted.

It’s Utah my friend

Don’t have to ask for permission.

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GFZ’s prohibit me from protecting me and mine.
So if it’s NOT the governments job to protect us why are they protecting mass shooters that target schools?

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Right,…. I see that reduction in crime.

Can’t be a criminal for possession of a firearm unless it’s a crime to possess it! :+1:

Much unlike California, where even if you do jump through hoops, you’re still a criminal.

I believe an armed society is a polite society, and that many of the petty criminals out there don’t want to be shot over stealing your wallet (look at the “good shooting” thread for the story from Texas) and therefore choose either higher risk/paying crimes, or legitimate ways of life.

Thus reducing crime rates.

Conversely, there’s another thread here about how there was a shooting almost immediately after Chicago removed the police presence (and their guns) from the proximity of a school….

The criminals knew they’d get shot by the police before,… now they’re gone, and the criminals are free to kill without fear because no law abiding citizen there has a gun to shoot back.

Yeah, there’s no statistics for how many crimes have been prevented by the presence of a firearm in control of the would be victims…. And until we have “pre-crime” like the movie Minority Report we will never be able to know!

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What it boils down to for me is that it is easier to involuntary disobey the law than voluntarily obey it. More people break the law than obey it on any given day. Politicians know this so they try to get the majority on their side, so they pick that side. When the people work hard to get people that would normally break the law to not break the law we become the majority and can elect who we want to elect.
Incidentally, I just got back from Salt Lake City. I took my wife to the university hospital and we stayed five days at a Home2 Sweets Facility. I talked to a lot of people even homeless, and found everyone to be above par.

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Dude, you should have said something. I would have let you but me lunch… ;>}

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And something at Gallenson’s :grinning:

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You can actually see the UofU Hospital from Gallensons… Just Sayin.

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I thought about it but was too busy.

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All Good, don’t hesitate next time. We’d love to get together and we’d buy dinner…