Sorry i should have clarified… they’re trying to break in your door like kicking it repeatedly…not just knocking loudly or whatever… if the amazon prime guy is doing that, he’s gonna get shot probably through the door! But i would absolutely wait until it looks like the door might give way…Then Prime will have to explain to its members why their 2 day delivery was late 
I would still be giving verbal commands “stop right now”
I thought I was pretty clear also. Shooting through a door when the door is holding would be considered MURDER or at least Manslaughter. If the door gives way and the bad guys come inside. NOW you have a reason to shoot, not before. No, I’m not laughing.
Cheers,
Craig6
I think the Kentucky statute would cover shooting through the door but, I wouldn’t take that chance.
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Sorry Craig that’s just not true. A person who is kicking in your door is an imminent threat once that door starts to give way… or could give way. The law does not require you to wait until someone someone enters your home and I don’t think you should. There can be but one reasonable interpretation for why they are refusing your commands to stop and that is that they intend on doing you violence… I’m personally not gonna give them the chance to see me and shoot since they 're after ME not my stuff if they’re ignoring the commands.
…and the mask comes off.
What mask Greg would you like to clarify? Why are you accusing me of wearing a mask? Do you think it’s appropriate to bring that level of maturity to a polite discussion on such things? Did you miss the lesson where you express your opinions without imputing bad motives to those who don’t agree with you? Just amazing how little skill fully grown adults have in having a discussion on the merits without letting that bleed into becoming personal. Should be something taught and mastered back in high school.
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How do you come to that determination? As we’ve already established the BJS stats are not telling us if the uninjured are uninjured because they complied or if it was because they fought back. Similarly of the it’s not telling us that 6% (77000) were seriously injured because they did resist.
If guns are used 3M times a year per the CDC (high end number) to prevent an attack, according to you a “significant” number (whatever your definition of that is) would be injured for resisting (regardless of robbery or other attack).
Again, I’m confident that that number is very very low (those who resist are injured) because if it were even near 50% the anti-2A crowd would be using that as campaign fodder (e.g. you shouldn’t have a gun to protect yourself because 50% of the time you will be injured).
I just don’t think that’s the reality of it.
I found this very interesting CT…Someone kicking in your door is an imminent threat and a clear sign they intend to do you harm but someone pulling a gun/knife on you and demanding you hand over your personal property “or else” is not? How do you know the person kicking down your door didn’t just really really want your television and other than stealing that and any jewelry you had on hand would have just left you and your family unharmed?
Maybe I don’t get the subtlety, but a person pulling a weapon or a person kicking down my front door both equal deadly threat in my mind and neither am I willing to just taking a chance and only using compliance as a strategy. Those actions will generate a response appropriate for the specific circumstances going down from minute to minute…maybe initially comply until I can find my opportunity to counter attack, maybe go on the offense right away if I detect the threat early enough. As @Craig6 stated, I’m not going to trust someone who’s already proven they are a deadly threat by merely pointing a gun at me.
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What if the guys kicking down the door are serving a red flag or a no knock warrant? The exception to the castle doctrine is when it’s the police.
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Well to each his own. Again you know that they’re coming after you because you’ve made your presence known and they still are kicking in your door. If someone walks into a gas station with a gun and says give me the money you can be pretty sure they are there for the money.
The statistics don’t have to just apply to those who resist since it encompasses everyone who got seriously hurt as defined by the bureau of justice statistics and that entire number is only 6%. So it’s actually a number in your favor because the actual number of people who get hurt complying is a small subset of that number. So I haven’t heard a challenge to the statistics yet which have been satisfying. Another member pointed to the chances of a school shooting happening as being very low as well however I didn’t think the analogy held since in that instance they’re primarily after your life not your stuff. I understand you’re talking a chance by putting your life in the hands of someone like that but I’ll take my odds if it’s say a gas station robbery that they’re not willing to take my life if I give full compliance. Because I know that I’m going to get involved in a gun fight otherwise and at that point the best odds I think anyone can give you is 70% of not getting seriously hurt.
is that the same thing as a gun violence restraining order
An “extreme risk protective order”, also known as an ERPO or Red Flag warrant is relatively new concept like protective orders in domestic violence cases but there does not need to be any specific actions, threats or injuries. They can be requested by police, relatives, friends or neighbors who believe a person is a threat to themselves or others.
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You’ll have to define your scenario much more clearly. Are they robbing the gas station? If so, an I am employee of the station or am I a bystander? Or are they robbing me while I just happen to be at a gas station? If I’m the target, does it matter that I’m at a gas station? If I’m just a bystander,has he shifted his attention away from the clerk and on to me, or am I reacting on behalf of the clerk without a direct threat to myself? Is he acting in a “businesslike” manner (for lack of a better term), or is he agitated and twitchy, screaming obscenities and threatening to shoot the clerk and/or everyone else? How many other people are present? Does he have a partner or two out in the lot?
It’s impossible to prescribe a course of action without knowing all the details.
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One like this. I love how the idiot robbers always put the gun away to take the money. They’re so greedy that their greed ends up literally killing them. Police search for suspect in armed robbery of gas station - YouTube
where the suspect is business like and laser focused on the money.
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CT,
I think we have a fundamental misunderstanding between you the sheep and we the sheepdogs You are looking for a “reason” that the bag guy is doing what he/she is doing so that you can reason your way to a non violent solution. OK fine, if that is the avenue you wish to pursue I’m good with that. On the other side of the coin are those that are aware that evil exists and we are willing to meet it head on within the laws and guidance of man. I personally don’t subscribe to your theory that they just want my “stuff” if they come after ME to get my stuff it means they want a piece of me or mine to get to my stuff. At that point the logic is clear the die is cast and the cards will fall where they may.
I almost get the impression that you are baiting the respondents who have been to this point very respectful of your opinion to make a bold statement for use of force in all cases or in a premeditated way.
I’m beginning to get the strong smell of …
Cheers,
Craig6
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No, I do not call BS for someone disagreeing with me but I have watched your behavior from afar and have an impression. I have had multiple differences of opinion on this forum and have had no ill effects other than a constructive conversation of differing opinions. I offered you the same.
I will not debate you further and caution the members of this board to hold their reply’s to germane facts and to not be induced into emotional responses that may reflect poorly in a court room.
@Dawn and @Zee I think your divine presence may be required here.
Cheers,
Craig6
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My “Behavior”. Still waiting for examples there buddy. You never debated me, you attacked me personally out of nowhere. Called me a sheep who doesn’t understand how the world works. Now you’re accusing me of inducing members into emotional responses. Are you alright? I am genuinely concerned for your health. Stop making accusations without evidence. You’re triggered because I have stats to back up an opinion that contradicts one you held dear, that’s what’s going on.
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Your commentary is noted. I thank you for the concern of my health I have just concluded a very nice Thanksgiving with family and friends. This evening I spent a wonderful night at the Virginia Symphony with my bride of 29.5 years watching Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban where they played all the musical pieces in time with the movie along with subtitles. It was an enjoyably pleasant evening thank you for your concern but I am fine and wish you well
Cheers,
Craig6
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In the words of Reagan
There you go again!
It takes a special kind of guy to accuse you, drag your reputation through the mud without any evidence, and then tell you all about his wonderful night! Welcome to the internet
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Alright y’all just settle down. There is room in here for civil exploitation of the various scenarios but once you guys heat up, it gets personal.
Respectful conversation, including not characterizing each others motivations, is expected across the board. Y’all can do it, I’ve seen you. Deep breath, chill out, be kind.
And dont make me pull this thread over… 
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