I think this one is a little more complicated than the headline implies. It would be interesting to hear more of the facts in this case. Sounds like the 14 year old was able to remove himself from the threat before returning with their illegally possessed firearm with the intention of shooting the bat guy. But if the bat guy was still actively threatening the other squeegee thugs with deadly force then the âkidâ could argue he was defending others from an imminent threat.
I can understand the bat guys frustration. This whole situation could have been avoided if the local LEOs did their job and arrested these extortionists instead of letting them get away with it for years. Things always eventually escalate when you repeatedly allow criminals to get away with crimes. But in most places I donât think citizens are allowed to threaten deadly force against crimes like extortion and vandalism.
Saw that article yesterday. Something didnât sit right with me. I think Iâd like to find out more details on the case before jumping to conclusions.
I like some of Gateway Punditâs stuff, but lately Iâve caught some blatantly false things being published thatâs really given me pause for viewing them as a trusted news source. Personally, Iâm at the point where I want to verify anything they publish before believing it fully.
The dead guy cannot be put on trial!
I understand, self-defense is not a valid claim to make, while committing a crime, such as extortion.
Dunno. Sounds like ârestorative justiceâ or a jury of the criminalâs true peers
True enough, but in the world in which we live, scammers, bums, street people and the raft of low-lifes who infest our cities and lives are NEVER prosecuted or investigated for anything. Consider, for example, the legion of scam calls everyone gets from organized criminal enterprises posing as the IRS, Social Security, the âMedicare Help Center.â Windows IT, the Lottery, etc, etc, that call everyoneâs homes and threaten them and seek to defraud them. Do they ever get caught? Does your local LE even bother to investigate them? Nope.
Imagine if a gang from India came to the US and knocked on doors to see if anybody was home, and if someone answered the door, they claimed âOh, weâre from the IRS (or any other LE agency). You failed to appear for court. You owe a fine of $500. You must pay us now.â Thatâs whatâs allowed in our world, except that the crooks commit their crimes with lists of phone numbers while US authorities do absolutely nothing to stop them.
Iâm an old telecom guy and an old cop, so when I hear LE claim âOh we canât track them, 'cause they are in India and foreign prosecutions are too hardâ I know that is utter BS being spun to cover up indifference, sloth and corruption by the folks who claim to âserve and protect.â
I think that is entirely possible. It is quite possible I would disagree with the juryâs decision of manslaughter instead of 1st or 2nd degree murder after reviewing all the facts in this case. My first thought when reading the headline and the article was why are the letting premeditated murderers off with slaps on the wrist.
But after reflection this article reminded me of the anti self defense mainstream media articles written about people who clearly legally defended themselves or others but some of the circumstances were questionable. The article has a clear bias and makes no efforts to provide balanced in depth details from both perspectives.
âFactsâ like shot in the back 3 times are meaningless without more details. Did those 3 shots come first? Was the bat guy presenting a clear threat to someone when the first shots were fired? Did the shots to the back come quickly as the bat guy suddenly decided to end his threat and run away but before the shooter could realize the threat was stopped?
The bat guy canât be put on trial. But the fact that it appears he introduced the possibility of an imminent deadly threat to the situation by confronting the squeegee thugs with a weapon does bring some doubt into who was the initiator of this confrontation. His actions open the door to the possibility that theyâre might be legal justifications for the shooterâs actions. If someone showed up with a bat and told me and my friends to stop what we were doing I would definitely consider ourselves to be under imminent threat. The squeegee guys have apparently been doing this for years without any legal consequences. I could see how they might feel they had a ârightâ to be there. Were they even actively engaged in extortion or vandalism at that moment or was the bat guy just fed up based on passed experience?
Regardless of legalities, I just donât think it was a smart move from the bat guy to introduce a weapon to the situation unless he had very good reason to believe the Squeegee guys were presenting an imminent threat. Even then evade and report likely would have been the better move.
Completely agree with your points. Just donât think the best solution is to solo take on a group of thugs through threat of force when they arenât actively presenting a deadly threat.
Think it would be smarter for the people in these communities to gather evidence of these crimes and keep harassing the LEOs and their elected officials to do their jobs. If enough people keep being enough of a pain in their butts it just might become easier for them to do their jobs than to not do them.
If they still refuse to do their duty then the last recourse I would suggest would be for law abiding citizens to show up in overwhelming numbers to these street corners to peacefully demonstrate to these thugs that their actions are not welcome. Doubt the squeegee guys are going to keep extorting money, keying cars and threatening violence with a significantly sized unfriendly audience watching and recording their actions. Think the authorities would also be quick to react to seeing their communities doing their jobs for them. Both to prevent the chance of escalation and to preserve their job security.
The majority of the eligible electorate no longer does something as simple as cast a vote. What youâre suggesting requires a level of commitment, engagement and action I suspect Americans are no longer capable of. For example, how much time and money are you willing to commit to such an effort in your community?
I once suffered a lapse in personal judgment and ran for state representative. I spent (wasted) more than $30k of my own money, and endless hours going to breakfasts, lunches, walking door-to-door, giving speeches, preparing mailers, putting up signs and trying to engage folks. Perfect strangers turned out to insult me to my face (and attack my wife) rather than actually talk to me. It was an utterly unrewarding thing that I will never, ever do again.
Like shoplifters and drug dealers might, no?
Iâll give you there are some parallels with Michael Drejkaâs case.
Disparity of force? Was he threatening them with the bat or just had it as the only tool he had when confronting these âchildrenâ known to be violent toward defenseless victims?
Itâs disturbing that the police will/cannot do anything about this. I recall the last time I went to the inner harbor, 2018, there were police at every corner, reminicent of Italy around the Vatican, except without submachine guns. I did not feel safe, and that was before the teen gangs began running rampant in that area. It used to be a nice weekend trip, a nice tourist getaway not too far from home. I canât imagine what it is like today.
We just donât tolerate truly nefarious behavior in our community. We had a mini crime spree a couple years ago. The neighbors all kept their eyes out till the guy was caught in the act and the sheriff was called. Not sure how much time if any he spent in jail but the house he lived in was up for sale shortly after his arrest and he was never seen again. Suspect he knew he would never be able to do anything again in our town without being watched.
My work doesnât allow me to commit to positions or projects that require regularly scheduled meetings but I do get involved when I see issues arise and would put a lot of effort into making sure criminals arenât allowed to roam freely in our neighborhood.
That is one of the many details missing from this article. But if the thugs werenât actively threatening anyone at that particular moment then I believe stepping out of the car with a weapon in hand would be considered an aggressive action without legal justification. I know stepping out of a vehicle with a firearm in hand would certainly be considered illegal in most if not all places unless an imminent threat is observed. Think brandishing a knife or a bat would fall in the same category in most locations.
Past âknownâ violent actions by this or similar groups would not justify brandishing if they werenât currently presenting an imminent threat. Which maybe they were maybe they werenât. Canât tell from this article.
[quote=âAlexander8, post:9, topic:93386â] Iâll give you there are some parallels with Michael Drejkaâs case.
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Incidents like these are why I prefer to let LEOs do the policing unless my life or another innocentâs life is clearly on the line.
These criminals constantly getting away with their various lower level crimes with no real consequences absolutely does embolden them and give them a sense of entitlement to their actions which will more often than not only escalate over time. Which is why politicians, prosecutors and LEOs need to do their jobs to keep society from melting down.
And now we know Baltimore jury consists of idiots, if you shoot someone that running away in the back THAT IS NOT self defense!
The guy that was murdered would have been locked up for life if he had retrieved his own handgun and defended himself against this heathen monster. Plus I thought guns are a huge NO NO in MD??
only when one is a legally armed citizen. 