The amazing Tom Grieve does a monthly Ask an Attorney webinar with Kevin Michalowski for USCCA Platinum and Elite members. As you may have seen, Tom is in the Community from time to time and so are a few other USCCA Attorney Network Attorneys.
The topic for the June 11th Ask an Attorney is safety concerns in the current climate of unrest.
Please add your questions by 8:00AM Central Time on the 11th.
I live in NC and as with just about every other state in the country we have protests going on. My question is: If I am in my vehicle and get mobbed by thugs and they are busting my windows trying to get in, at what point if any can I use deadly force to defend myself?
i’m wondering, both in my home state of Pennsylvania as well as in other areas of the country experiencing other injustices, about the LTCF (License To Carry Firearms permit) issuing agents (County Sheriffs Offices and the Philadelphia Police Department’s Gun Permit Unit) and what is being done by Constitutional lawyers to ensure that The People’s second amendment rights are not being used as another tool for systemic oppression.
Specifically, in both Montgomery County and Philadelphia County, headlines were made regarding LTCF applications not being accepted due to COVID-19, but no further updates were made as to them re-opening. Now, with the recent rioting which seems to have settled down, spurred a number of my Good law-abiding citizens wanting to be able to protect themselves at home and in public, but even getting started on the process of getting a LTCF within Philadelphia County, Philadelphia city, is impossible, at a time when unrest could be sparked just as easily as it has been calmed.
My question is about what are some common use cases where USCCA has been needed, some non-identifiable situational descriptions, and the outcome.
What were the main factors in receiving the outcome whether desired or undesired.
I’m in a place I have every legal right to be in, and no “duty to retreat” when suddenly an angry mob rounds the corner they are charging me with more than sticks and stones, I run, trip and fall, I hear the words, “kill, that (insert expletive)” is it justifiable to shoot into the angry “crowd”?
If I am in my home and a mob comes down the street throwing bricks and Molotov cocktails into my house and it’s not feasible to escape out the back. At what point can I defend myself, as Molotov cocktails are deadly weapons.
I live in Ohio and am currently in line to get my ccw within the next month or so. I have decided to open carry and I believe that I know the laws that are assosiated with open carry. My question is about what you do in a vehicle? I have read that I need to keep my gun either in the open (unloaded) or in a container (unloaded). Ammo needs to be in a place that you have to exit the vehicle to access. I would like to know if I kept my handgun in the open inside the holster with no magazine in it, can I just put the loaded magazine in a seperate container like my center consol that locks or my glove box?
I watched. Was very well conducted.
But I am disappointed. Totally got the AVOID thing.
What I got was bad guy wins especially in this climate, good guy loses badly and over and over, from criminal to civil. I wouldn’t want to end up like Reginald Denny. He was just doing his job, when he viscously gets ripped from his truck and beaten half to death. The totality of those circumstances is clear no matter what the angle.
Now I feel I have no recourse when being attacked in my car or being burned out of my home, because I couldn’t establish that said bad guy didn’t do 4 other houses. Or I should have a go pro, and I need to bear the burden of proof that my home was just torched. So, how does one AVOID the rioting crowd as my family and I have to exit a burning building right into the arms of the killers? I’m obviously on the wrong side.
Bad guy wins and is winning, good guy loses and loses, his homes, businesses, dignity.
Again the law seems to favor bad guys and is completely against the good guy. 400 Rioters said the windows weren’t broken until he put his foot on the gas, so we believe the 400 illegal RIOTERS (bad guys) but not the schlub and his poor family! Yeah I get it 400 zombies try to kill my family in my car and I have to be careful of the poor zombies who should have avoided my car and not to mention avoided the illegal practice of rioting. Sorry, but that’s who should have been avoiding.
It’s late and our country is being burned to the ground and being taken over, this is war and I guess I’ll have to sleep on it, and pray that when I wake up the good guy is winning.
They said exactly what I expected them to say.
Point blank. I don’t expect the USCCA to ever give any answer other than.
Follow your training.
Maybe you are covered, maybe you are not.
I have a question i almost hesitate to ask, but i would like an educated legal opinion, and i know It’s a little late to ask since I’ve already chosen to be unusually open in these forums in order to participate, and further support general education. My question though is: What might be some guide lines for the things one reveals in general posting in a forum like this?. To be specific, I am thinking about how wise it is to list things things one owns, or various carry decisions one makes. Yet i feel forums like this are important in times like this, as is the communication and dialogue between others on the subject. Maybe this is a problematic question, but i thought it worth asking.
Well, we know who you are and we know where you live, anything else we discuss hear is just icing on their cake.
Actually our moderator @Dawn keeps us kinda safe. Just follow some good old common sense online etiquette and we will all be fine. As you know what’s put out online stays online!
And @MikeBKY our online USCCA attorney is awesome!
That is a great question and I’ll use the same phrase that Tom and MikeBKY would most likely use - it depends.
Should you give out your address, phone number, email address, and license plate? No. BTW - your location can be added or removed from your profile page in the Community and your email address can only be seen by the USCCA Moderators.
Can you discuss what type of gun you carry? Yes - if you feel comfortable doing so. You can always suggest a type of gun to carry or discuss how a certain size of gun might be to carry without saying you carry it.
Not all details need to be shared. But not all details are secret. People know I ride a Harley - I’ve even posted a picture of it here. But no one knows my license plate. I’m ok with that level of knowledge. I’m guessing most people here have some sort of vehicle - car, truck, minivan. If you told me you drove a Ford F150, I would have an idea of what you drove, but that’s about it.
It comes down to what you’re OK with people knowing.
I agree with what @Dawn has said @DS-1, but I am most concerned about comments and opinions then to facts. I have left my business information in places on this forum and it is available on the Attorney Network page. I generally do not put my personal contact information on forums but have provided it privately to some people. But, I can tell you it would not take much to find my name, address, phone number, family members names, and a whole lot more from public information. Names addresses and even license plate numbers are all public information. Deeds must be maintained publicly and getting info on a license plate is as easy and making a request to the DMV.
I always worry about comments that would allow a prosecutor or jury to make unfair or inaccurate judgments about you (or me). I have said that if someone approached me with a taser or pepper spray, it just became a deadly force encounter. That can be used against me in court. On the other side of that is that I have also explained that i have been trained with both tasers and OC spray, both which required that I be the willing recipient of getting tased and peppered. Having been tased and peppered, I can attest to the fact that if i am tased or peppered, there is a significant risk that I will be disabled, and any of the tools I have available to me could more easily be removed, threatening my life and the life of others.
The problem is when there is just a response, I would have shot him or done this or that.
My advice to everyone is to be careful what you say and how you say it. Think before you press send or reply or enter about how others may perceive your message. Choice of words and how you use them is very important. The key, in my opinion, is to not give the government words to put back in your mouth.
So my situations is this. I was just offered a job in Idaho working for Americorps. Idaho recognizes my CWP and has very good gun laws from what I have been researching. During the interview process they mentioned there would be no alcohol, tobacco or drugs allowed on premise (which I agree with and understand), but firearms were never brought up in the interview. The position would involve being on a trail crew for 9 weeks where I am on public and private land for tending hiking trails, restoring wildlife habitat, and other similar responsibilities. We will be camping out for the entire 9 weeks so there will be no reason to believe I will be physically inside of their buildings or any federal court houses etc where they would technically have the ability to restrict my right to carry.
My problem comes from their policy package. In the package it states that knives and firearms will not be allowed (which I am assuming would relate to the employees that work with the public inside their buildings on a regular basis).
I need to know, what legal grounds do I have on my side to request a written exemption for that policy given my CWP status. If I am denied this exemption request they will essentially be asking me, through their policy, to give up their ability to defend themselves in the wilderness from potential threats from cougars and bears, or other people who wish to harm our crew, without even being on their property, just because I would be employed as their employee temporarily. Part of me wants to be a smart alack and ask if they would personally sign a form that would hold them liable for any medical or funeral costs for my family should I be attacked or killed on the job because of their policy, but I would rather go about this the smart way and maybe potentially even build a good rapport to have them start thinking about that situation for other CWP holders so they can add that into their policy.
My desire in asking this question is to find out what legal backing I could point out for them to realize that by not allowing me to work for the sole reason that I want to keep my sidearm is a form of discrimination. For all other qualification standards I am overqualified for the job. The reason I applied for this position was for the experience of camping for that length of time. It is a resume skill I need to be competitive for other positions I have applied to, and have been passed over because I was lacking in that area. They have already offered me the position based on every other standard of employment.
Some additional information… I will be traveling from out of state as well, so I have no home to store the sidearm in, and the vehicle I travel with is a motorcycle so if I left my firearm with my vehicle it will be a risk of having it stolen at some point during the 9 weeks I am in the field, where someone could use that firearm for a crime and I would be unaware until I returned to my vehicle to find it missing.
I look forward to the help, and know I hope this helps further workplace relations with CWP holders in general. Especially in the wildlife science field.
Thank you , The question was prompted by the desire to participate here in a useful way, which necessarily means a higher level of openness about subjects I don’t generally discuss.
Thanks Dawn. The educational value to people of a forum like this, and others helping new gun owners to get their skills and mindset right, and as safe as possible, is worth some investment. I just wanted to double check the boundaries and see if I was being too cautious. Thanks to you and MikeBKY both.
The next Ask an Attorney will premiere next week, (week of June 26)! In this episode, Kevin Michalowski and Tom Grieve will discuss a variety of current events.
What questions do you have about the New Mexico Statue Defense and Safety in the Seattle Autonomous Zone?
I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV, and no I did not spend last night at a Holiday Inn Express.
All else being as it was, if the shooter had a concealed carry permit, the fact of him running away and attempting to escape and only shooting after he had been clubbed to the ground, should that be considered self defense?
I ask, as trained CCW permit holders we are trained to shoot to stop. If the person we shot then gets up and tries to escape and is not a threat of immediate death or grievous bodily harm, we can not keep shooting or we become the aggressors and our claim of self defense is no longer valid.
I know that in some cases the City has some immunity from lawsuits. But in something as egregious as the Seattle CHOP district, does the City not open itself open to liability to all of the residents and businesses, as well as the families of the 4 people who were shot in that area while the City actively allowed the takeover of that part of Seattle.