Even if you were 100% certain that the people on the other side of the door were violent criminals intent on harming you and your family, running out the door to confront them all is not a sound tactical move. I can’t think of any good reason to open your door, especially at night, to unknown visitors unless you can confirm they are not a threat.
Perhaps the man’s judgement was severely impaired by drugs or alcohol? Otherwise it’s hard to come up with a logical reason for his action. Proper training likely would have promoted retreating to a safe area and calling 911.
That of course is a freeze frame of a split second from a video in which the man was moving, he wasn’t just standing like that. The camera simply loses a good shot of the homeowner at that point as the officer is moving and maybe shooting.
And I don’t know what the trainer you are referencing was referring to exactly, because holding a gun like that freeze frame image in a context like this is absolutely posing an imminent threat.
Remember the discussion where people insisted having a rifle slung in front presented an imminent threat? This guy is barging out of his house towards the officers with the gun in his hand raising it with the muzzle in the direction of the officers.
So, I’ll give the trainer the benefit of the doubt and assume he wasn’t referring to anything at all like what this homeowner did.
Yeah. That’s right. We don’t know how the gun was oriented while the homeowner was coming out.
LEO’s reaction was pretty fast and he didn’t hesitated to shoot…
That might be indication that the threat was present.
Anyways, I’m trying to go over and over again through the whole scenario thinking if there was another option to come out with the gun, but not being the threat. I’m trying to be in homeowner’s shoes and imagine what I would do being woken up at night. I know they introduced themselves as “Police” … but not everyone trust such words during the night.
I think better was to stay behind closed door and discuss… even with gun in the hand.
This or retreating to a safer area inside the house while calling 911 in either case to confirm they are police seem like infinitely better options than leaving the safety of cover to make yourself an open target for a bunch of people you’ve already decided are threatening enough that you need a firearm in your hand.
If I knocked on a door (mistakenly or not) and the homeowner answered with a gun raised towards me, he could certainly lose his life. The fact that they’re law enforcement is almost irrelevant in this “wrong address” scenario, except of course that they announced themselves as police. I have no idea what was going on in the mind of the homeowner, but both police and private citizens have the same right of self-defense, whether you’re inside your own home or standing on someone else’s front porch.
Never rang the doorbell, stated he was the police, but not in a voice loud enough to have been heard through a closed door.
In normal speed, you were able to acertain that? I couldn’t. Fired shots so quickly after the door opened that only a slow-mo frame-by-frame would be able to see what happened, I was unable to do that as that video only gives standard speed playback.
The guy was a lawful citizen until he was gunned down in his home.
With flashlights pointing at the door - makes it impossible to identify who is behind the flashlights in the dark. The guy did not have a peephole, so even if he was at the door when the officer was there, he would not have seen him. Obviously, he was not at the door then, or he may have responded differently. One officer, in the beginning, appeared to be going around to the back of the house, or at least the side.
If he said it louder, people would be going on about how they were pounding and yelling. Sometime you can’t win. He knocked and he announced police 3 separate times, without yelling and scaring anybody. Perfectly acceptable if not actually preferred.
He did knock three times and did state he was police three times. In the quiet of night. If homeowner couldn’t hear enough to know who was on the other side of the door knocking, that doesnt’ in any way whatsoever make it okay to open the door and come out raising a gun.
Yes I was absolutely able to tell in normal speed that the guy who came out with a gun in his hand had the muzzle going up in the direction of the officers. I was able to tell he came out with a gun in his hand with the muzzle in the direction of the officers because he did come out with a gun in his hand and the muzzle raising in the direction of the officers.
The guy was not a lawful citizen when he answered the door by opening and raising a gun. He unlawfully presented an imminent deadly threat and was shot in self defense. I would even say he wasn’t in his home anymore, he was in the doorway and exiting the doorway into the front yard. After he chose to open the door.
You say they didn’t ring the bell…so how did the homeowner know to open the door and come out with his gun…? He knew because they knocked and they heard him knock.
You don’t get to raise your gun at people in your yard because you don’t know who they are
Please, please understand you don’t get to threaten people with a gun (which is what he was doing, actually I think he was about to shoot) because they knock on your door and you don’t know who they are. That’s not how it works
You have some amazing vision, even when I tried to move frame-by-frame, I could not see that level of detail in that video. Even the snap Jerzy posted is not very clear, but you saw clearly…
That’s a matter of opinion, and a one-sided view of the circumstances, called hindsight. Seemingly the officer must have also had his firearm drawn and pointed at the door, as he fired as soon as the door opened and the man became visible for an instant - by the officers flashlight, which as I stated earlier, makes it impossible to know who is behind it in the dark.
When the door opened, he did not state he was police, just shot the guy. But I agree that he should not have opened the door, especially holding a firearm in any visible manner.
And we know that is what he was thinking? You were able to get a statement from him?
No, he didn’t say he was police for the second the guy was about to shoot him. He said hands up.
He put his hands up alright, with the gun in them leveling it at the officers.
We don’t have to know what he was thinking. We know what he did.
I guess it’s possible that he threatened them with the gun/tried to shoot them because he thought they were Russian spies who were going to kidnap him? Fair point though, we don’t know why he responded to people standing in his yard by presenting them with an imminent deadly threat.
Whatever he was thinking, it was wrong, and it cost him his life.
Learn from his mistake, and do NOT do what he did, it was wrong and illegal and got him killed in self defense
Thats exactly what I would have done. But the 911 operator may very well have said that “No, there was not any law enforcement dispatched to that address”. Communication between dispatch and officers in the field is not ideal at the best of times.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, as I can see critical errors on both sides of the argument. For me, and me alone, I think that the homeowner was an idiot. As for the officer, he was damned fast on the trigger, which makes me curious.
More than enough blame for both sides. Hopefully, the Law Enforcement agencies involved will review their policies and institute better training.
My one sticking point in this. I get how he came out of the house fast, an officer then reacted, I get that. But how did the woman not get shot, she actually shot at the LEO’s and then surrendered once LE identified themself.
Like I said more than enough blame to go around for everyone involved.
Curious in what way? Remember, you’re talking about a professional who was responding to the most dangerous type of call officers get, so he/they were surely focused and prepared for something like a guy barging out ready to shoot them with no prior warning