An eloquent thoughtful response

Below is my experience with a Mass Shooting event here where I live and it’s closely aligned with the response of a family member who lost someone in the recent Maine shooting.

This was my experience.

I had a health related incident at a local mall where a “mass shooting” event happened at 2 weeks earlier. I have a rarish condition called Addison’s. Basically to much stress of any kind can kill me. We were at a friend’s birthday party at Dave & Busters and I had a reaction event. When the Paramedics came they were helping me to the ambulance and one of themselves hand was next to my firearm. The Paramedic who helped me had been one of the First Responders at the mass shooting 2weeks earlier. I told her I had a permit and she told me that she had wished that there were some Concealed Carriers there the day of the shooting.

This reply came from Quora. It was written by a family member of one of the victims in response to the Maine mass shooter.

"You know what? I probably should not respond to this at the moment, but I’m going to. Yesterday, I informed my daughter that her husband and 14yo son were killed in that Lewiston shooting. It was heart wrenching for me and worse for her. I can tell you with a 1000% percent certainty that every single person, man or woman, civilian or cop, wishes my son in law had been carrying his concealed weapon when went to pick up his son at the bowling alley. He hadn’t because of a sign on the door that ne weapons were allowed. He often picked up my grandson at the alley because the kids were in a bowling league. My son in law didn’t carry because of that little sign and he didn’t want to risk causing any problems.
Today, everyone, and I mean everyone, wishes he had.

Bill was a gun owner and we would often shoot in his back yard. At thanksgiving, he loved filling pumpkins with water and we would shoot those in his backyard while the turkey cooked. I gave him a 1911 45ACP as a wedding present. A couple of years ago, I gave Aaron a Ruger SP101 22LR 4” of his own. (Mom & Dad kept all guns locked up and supervised his shooting sessions. This summer, I took Aaron to a “Zombie Shoot competition. He used a 9mm and did an awesome job for his first time. Bill andAaron were supporters of responsible gun ownership as the NRA and GOAL promote.

Yesterday, even folks that I know don’t like guns, wishes Bill had had his CCW gun on his person. Our loved ones were killed by a deranged man who had threatened to frag and shoot up the National Guard members that he was part of. He was hospitalized for 2 weeks of psyche eval. (If that was state mandated, it would have been 5 days may, but military has a little more clout.)Was he subsequently allowed to have firearms? We don’t know. But being a firearms instructor with the NG, he had know how and access.

The murderer is still on the run. We do not give a crap if he gets shot by police or a civilian. But I do hope he doesn’t takehisownlife. I want him to know that apprehension of not seeing where it comes from. Bu5 the groundwork has already been laid so that despicable bastard will probably get off on grounds of insanity.

That sign on the door was not there because of the NRA nor MAGA. It was there because of leftist fearmongers that blame the object instead the villain. Wake up people! You don’t blame the car for killing the pedestrian. You don’t flame the alcohol for it. You don’t blame the fentanyl for the overdose. The gun did not cause the murders."


That family member can not say that loud enough or far enough!


Hopefully that reply finds its way to mainstream media outlets or somewhere with big, real reach, with real names and proven validity behind it, because if that can be done, it’s strong


@Zacier_D the Maine shooting is why I ignore those little signs on doors. Which is also why I’m glad that in KY ignoring that little sign is only a trespass offense. If asked to leave I will never to return nor will I allow any family member to go to said place if I have any say into the matter.


I’m NOT one to normally be in favor of lawsuits, and I think excessive suits are one thing ruining this country, but, this almost seems like an opportunity for a family to fight back against the anti-gunners.

If people can get a court to hear a lawsuit against Daniel Defense because a killer had one of their guns, but didnt even use it in his crime, why can’t this family sue the business for not allowing them to safely defend themselves? I feel like we need an example of the repercussions of disarming legal concealed carriers, and that there is real weight to the decision to prevent law abiding people from exercising their fundamental rights. Putting up that no guns sign matters, and it really does put everyone at risk.

I know people will argue that no one made the victims go in there in the first place, and rather than disarming, they could have simply avoided the place, but that’s not always realistic in daily life. His child was there and he had to go get his child. Just yesterday I needed blood drawn. When I got to the lab I saw a no guns sign. I ignored it, because I needed the test for my health, and it was too late to try and find a different lab that would allow my concealed gun. Given today’s world, I chose to take my chances with the sign and went in armed anyway. Everyone was fine and no one was the wiser that there was an evil mean gun in their midst.

If the lawsuits we’ve seen coming out lately against legal gun manufacturers can go forward on such ridiculous grounds, something like this should be allowed as well.


oh I would love to an anti-gun nut use that! But I guess they are stuck in their safe places. You can turn that around on them so fast. Example; so you’re saying I shouldn’t send my kids to school, I can’t have a romantic dinner with my wife in a nice restaurant or that I should become a recluse in my home scared to step a foot outside.

Evil doesn’t care where it shows its ugly head or to whom it effects. Be men, stand strong and hold your head high.


It’s the same in Indiana, that sign only means they can ask you to leave, and I’m the same way I wouldn’t go back there again.


That was an excellent post Brother.
Sorry to hear about your ‘Addison’s’
Take care of yourself
Keep Calm and carry Armed! :crazy_face:


I don’t see a lawsuit opportunity.

You have every right to simply not go to that business.

If you feel your life is in danger because you are going to that bowling alley…don’t go to that bowling alley.

Private property Rights are a thing, too. If someone doesn’t want you in their business on their property with a gun, I can’t really find a legitimate reason for saying sorry but I’m hear I’m bringing my gun deal with it.

Avoidance. Just don’t go there

BTW: If lawsuits like that are a thing, it would stand to reason, logically, I think, that we can also sue a business if they do allow guns…and a person carrying a gun causes injury. Like, if there is an ND…now the business is responsible. That to makes just as much sense to me.

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Let me ask this…

…gun ranges, gun stores, that don’t allow loaded guns, not even concealed carry loaded guns.

If you go to that range, and you are attacked, but you don’t have a loaded gun…should be able to sue the range and should the range be liable that you were attacked and didn’t have a loaded gun?

If you are attacked at an outdoor range, when the line is cold, and you were not allowed to have a gun on you, or touch, and you were unable to respond due to this rule…should the gun range be liable because they required you not be armed at that time?

What if you are in a no-ammo training room at a class? Are they liable if something happens?

Should it not be allowed to have a no-loaded-guns situation or the range/training facility is at fault?

What if they don’t allow that, and there is an an ND with injury, are they also at fault for that?

I could see an argument for lawsuits blaiming the range/training facility for anything, no matter what.

I wonder if this line of “sue them” could put ranges and training facilities out of business entirely because there is no right answer? Unintended consequences?

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Nathan, you’re making the same point I did make in my original post- the argument is always, “just don’t go in a business with a no-guns policy.” I’m in 100% agreement with that idea, and it is my own personal policy. Whenever I have a choice, I don’t go. I also pointed out that sometimes in daily life it’s impossible not to go into those places. Every now and then we need to go someplace that insists on no-guns.

My further point was that everyone is suing everyone too much, and it’s a big part of what’s wrong with this country. Having said that, in the case of gun owners and manufacturers, all the suits are coming from the anti-gun crowd.

Realistically, would you see the following case going forward:

A deranged psychopath goes and shoots up a mall. Later, the investigators find, in his closet, a Daniel Defense rifle, but it’s not the one he used to shoot up the mall. A survivor of the shooting sues Daniel Defense on the grounds that their gun and their advertising inspired the lunatic to become a mass murder. Seriously, does that case have merit? Apparently it does, according to a different thread on here.

The point is, whether it’s this case, or a different one, maybe it’s time for the legal gun owners and industry to fight back with the same weapons the left uses- the court. The anti-gun people need to understand that they may not think much of creating “gun free zones” but in doing so, they’re putting people’s lives at risk. Sure, they can hide behind the line “we can’t help it if a bad guy comes in shooting, that’s not on us,” but it IS on them that the good guy, who would have been armed, couldn’t do anything to stop the bad guy.

I can respect the gun free zone at my local hospital, because they have armed guards and metal detectors, so they’re doing something more than putting up a sign and fantasizing that everyone will be safe. They’re taking some responsibility themselves to keep bad guys with guns out, and providing their own good guys with guns. Just putting up the sign and hoping for the best is creating a liability that needs to somehow be called out. If it’s not with the court, then what’s a good way?


What liability is it creating? If you choose not to go there, then you aren’t there. If you choose to disarm and go there, you made that choice.

Personal choices.

If enough people don’t give them money as a result of their policy, and let them know why, they may change it. Or go out of business and their competitor that doesn’t ban guns will stay in business.

It might just be a thing that you can’t force private businesses to do what you want with their policies

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I only now logged on and read your post. My deepest sympathy and prayers go out for your family as well as all those effected by this senseless act of barbarism.
Even in Arkansas which is a Constitutional carry and concealed carry state, there many (way too many) establishments that post “No fire arms allowed”. Our members of law enforcement are top notch and do their level best to protect and serve but they just can not be everywhere. Every business and facility that ban legal concealed carry are just as guilty as the shooters of unarmed citizens. This can only be corrected be those who patronize these establishments. We must refuse to be put in un-defensible positions just so some woke lib can virtue signal.


To all the non-lawyers on this list: Whether there is a cause of action or not is beyond your expertise to make a comment. And if you are a lawyer, you should know that you can’t comment on the laws in other states unless you are registered with the bar association in that state. There are fifty states and several territories and they all have vastly different laws relating to guns and civil liability. So if you are going to comment on the prospect of filling a negligence lawsuit, please don’t comment unless you have met the minimum of being a lawyer in that state involved. Otherwise, why not speculate on whether there is humanoid life on Mars?You have the same amount of professional knowledge about that topic as you do about civil liability in a foreign state. And furthermore, as any experienced trial lawyer will tell you, a jury trial is like going to Vegas only the odds are better in Vegas.

I guess, non-politicians can’t comment on politics, non-teachers can’t comment about teachers, and non-criminals can’t comment about crime, etc.? Thankfully we still have our 1st amendment rights and you are still “allowed” to post what you did. I didn’t see your credentials that “allowed” you to post your criticism about those you disagree with.


Sue the location that had the sign up for infringement of constitutional rights. We need to move the law suit up to the law makers and sue their pockets, not the public’s. Use Judge Benitez’s recent decision in CA.


I am a CCW and enter the gun range armed and loaded. The employees are fine with this. It is the non-CCW folks that have to have guns unloaded.

When I do get to the shooting ally, I would then unload my carry and put the defense bullets off to the side and practice with regular rounds. When finished, I reload up my carry and exit.

Same goes for my CCW renewal class. I let the instructor know the situation and they are fine.


Well let me tell you what I think is living on Mars. It isn’t humanoid life. More likely it was life seeded there by unknown aliens who genetically modified it and has been frozen in ice formations for eons.


That’s definitely different than what I generally experience.

If there was a class you wanted to take, but the classroom portion (usually the intro/safety brief/book stuff ahead of the range) prohibited loaded firearms…what would you do?

If someone else went to a class that required no loaded firearms in the classroom…or maybe someone else went to a competition where loaded firearms are strictly prohibited other than the one person who was given the load command by the RSO…?

Should those people going to that training or competition violate the safety rules and have a loaded gun at all times…or should the range/host location/RSO be liable if those people are attacked and don’t have a loaded gun because they were following the rules?


Nathan57, I would comply with the requests. The fact I informed them was the proper thing. They have never asked me to unload.