An eloquent thoughtful response

That’s great, I suppose…but it is a common situation where, upon going to a range or a class, one must unload their firearm.

If you were required to unload your gun to go to the competition, or that class…do you believe the range/competition org/instructor/etc should be liable for the safety of that person? Should they get sued for requiring that disarmament?

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I believe the situation at the range/competition is much different than a business or show since the use of the weapon is part of any range/competition situation. A business/show is not where one would be using their weapon unless it was a threatening situation. Besides, anyone entering a range/competition environment with the intent to commit a crime will most likely have numerous weapons trained on them quickly.


The use of the firearm isn’t part of every situation. Example: A skeet shooting competition with a shotgun, you aren’t using your concealed carry pistol. Example: You are working from the bench with handgun A, and you wish to concealed carry handgun B without ever removing it from the holster.

Also, is it not possible to safely carry a concealed firearm and only handle it safely at the firing line?

We wouldn’t want a rules for thee but not for me situation would we? Shouldn’t rules and laws and requirements apply equally to all?

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Very sad the whole shooting incident. I have to say, I honestly disobey those signs as that is when we are at our most vulnerable state. Ive seen the signs at hospitals and other places…I just ignore them. I know I could get into trouble for carrying in a safe no gun zone, but Id rather die myself with my gun in my hand instead of empty hand.


I see a difference in offering an opinion on topics of general knowledge and offering opinions in a field of specialized knowledge. I wouldn’t offer a medical opinion nor recommend a surgical procedure for someone. In the same vein, suggesting litigation or legal action is in the same vein in my opinion. As for expertise, I spent 20+ years working in the legal field, so I have a somewhat more first-hand experience than the average person, having seen actual trials from beginning to end and having written down every word uttered during such trials which required close attention to what was going on.


That may be, but you do not know everyone’s backgrounds here, and you would likely be surprised, just as I am of your claimed background. As I stated, even you are “allowed” an opinion, even if no one else appreciates or agrees with it. The same as you, for everyone else here.


Folks, that sign is all about CYA! No one gets sued when the killer comes in and starts shooting. BUT, a lawsuit can happen if a CCW person responds to the killer and a bystander gets shot. The property owner has nothing to loose posting that sign but a possible loss if guns are allowed. Therefore - CYA.

In my state such a sign does not carry the weight of law, if your gun is spotted and you are told to leave you have to leave immediately to avoid trespass. Many places will never notice a concealed gun and many employees will not care if they do spot it. The cost of “go along, get along” can be very high. Many of the mass killings are carried out in selected “no gun” areas.

Property owners have the right to ban guns on their property, We all have the right to spend our money elsewhere, but if you choose to not spend your money in the “killer protection zone”, please tell the store(s) so they understand there is a cost associated with the sign.


I live in Illinois, the state that just banned the AR15. I the Federal Court of Appeals the ban was upheld. I own an AR15 and I am required to register it with the Illinois State Police b Jan. 1, 2024. What this adds up to is that I am being reprimanded for and put on the same level as a demented killer because he killed using a weapon that is similar to a weapon I own. I have never killed or even shot at anyone and I was in law enforcement for 27 years. I own several rifles and handguns I am a member of the NRA and the Illinois Rifle Association, I recently signed up for their range. I shoot as often as I can and thoroughly enjoy it. I have a FOID Card and Concealed Carry Permit. I am a law abiding citizen and respect and follow the laws of our nation. So, can anyone tell me why I am being punished. Anti gun activists consider all gun owners as part of the problem. They consider us just as guilty as the ill minded people committing this crimes.They are afraid of us and they don’t trust us. I have considered not registering my AR, but this would be breaking the law ( a misdemeanor on the first offense). But felony or misdemeanor it is still breaking the law and I have been trained to enforce the law. So how do I fight back, how do I defend my rights? Anyone have any answers?


I can’t tell you why that is for you to wonder about. Their purpose is to make money. I can not tell you how that is up to you and all of us to be innovative. Good luck in being safe and keeping your loved ones safe.

The only time I don’t carry is when I’m drinking. I don’t drink.


Hello and welcome @David10mm


Welcome David 10mm !
Good Post Brother



The ‘System’ is FUBAR!
As many a great mind here say’s Up is down, right is wrong etc.
I would NEVER tell you what to do (especially in this situation)
But, I will say ‘Act Accordingly’!
If (for now) you are faced w/ the possibility of breaking the law if you DO NOT register your firearm(s)
maybe an alternative is getting them out of harms way (temporarily)
maybe a ‘friend’ you TRUST (REALLY TRUST!) to hold them for now out of state until REASON returns
to Politics (please do not hold your breath). Here in New Mexico we have a .guvner
who thinks also she can rewrite the Constitution, abolish the 2nd and even put the kybosh
on our Freedom and RIGHTS! SHE IS MISTAKEN.
For the record, I also am a law abiding citizen, a CCW holder, a Level3 Guard and a Bernalillo
Court officer and I don’t want to see a ‘smudge’ on my spotless record once there it will always be there even if it is retracted/redacted/whatevered! some A-Hole in gubment could unearth it to their benefit and my determent. these people in .gov are messing w/ the Law Abiding for ONE reason and one reason only…
(My opinion only) And that is for TOTAL DISARMAMENT of the populas.
We will not go into my reasoning here this is about you and your future choices.
You need to do this that resonates in your Heart and keeps your mind clear so you can stay focused
and NOT be distracted by these people. Distraction can get you DEAD.
27 Years as a LEO, Once a Leo always a LEO is something to be PROUD of and I CONGRATULATE YOU SIR and Thank you for your Service. You don’t want to see any negative marks on your record or lose you weapons… I GET THAT!
Don’t concern yourself with what Anti-gunners and Politicians think of US because no matter what we do it will not be pleasant/Happy thoughts. That doesn’t matter. what matters is how do We Gunners KEEP our rights, Freedoms and guns and stay safe and weather this storm until reason returns to society. lately that may be asking too much but I won’t go there now either.
And maybe send your Guns on a little vacation someplace Friendlier (for now)

Just a few thoughts Brother,
Take care Keith



Firstly, welcome to the forum. Second, great point. I am very much in the same boat. I carry everywhere, even when I am drinking. I don’t drink alcohol either.

I recently reconnected with my step sister. She got remarried at the end of October. I had this very surreal experience at her wedding. I was apologizing to the wedding party because I was CC my Glock. Most of them were as well. But I had allowed myself to feel uncomfortable CC, even though I fully accept the responsibility of being my own first responder.

It was a strange feeling. I live in Alabama, and trust me, everyone of you would wish you had Alabama’s CC laws. We are by far the least restricted CC in the U.S. You might quibble about training or to appease a couple of the nitpickers about private property rights but the ease of CC is truly the best I am aware of.

But that feeling I had to justify my CC is directly attributable to anti 2A hysteria.


Virginia is fairly liberal, too. I have not compared laws in the last couple of years, so I can’t say which is better, but it is far better than most.


Welcome Home brother!


For those curious about taking in a loaded firearm into the shooting range, here are the range rules for one I use: Range Info | The Indoor Shooting Facility

Actually says, “22. All firearms must be UNLOADED and in a case/container when transported in the lobby and/or parking lot. CCW/law enforcement are exempt.

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That’s cool of your range.

Other ranges do have different rules and there are a lot of ranges out there (unfortunately) that don’t allow concealed carry of a loaded gun.

Should people be able to sue those ranges if they follow the rule and are attacked but don’t have their carry gun on them?

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Don102, I thank you for the kind words and wise advice. Thank you also for your service. I have thought this over for some time and have discussed it with my friends (the pro gun kind) and other LE friends. All have advised that the best way to go is not to register. However, all have also stated that I should avoid breaking the law. It is a conundrum to say the least. Your suggestion, to send them out of state is the best idea I have received. I have relatives out of state that would be happy to care for them and that is what I may do. You are correct brother, by the way I’ve read about your fearless (feckless?) leader down there. You have my sympathy. Unfortunately there are too many do-gooders who have little understanding of what the Constitution is meant to do and who it protects. Also, our law-makers have no ideamof what the effects the laws they make have on society. I have always said that the main purpose of politicians is not to serve the people but to get reelected. I wish you a safe and healthy future life and I hope the coming holidays bring happiness to you and all with you. God bless you and yours, Keith.

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Robert1246, you are right. Greed reigns. But look at another angle. The other objective of all politicians, beside getting rich, is getting reelected. When the anti gun factions start barking because another demented individual (who is known to be mentally unstable by his family and close friends) buys a gun and starts shooting up the neighborhood our do the right thing, self righteous saviors of society write another law taking a freedom away from everybody who had nothing to do with the person or the incident. (How’s that for a run on sentence?) I have a plan and it doesn’t involve breaking the law or giving up my weapons. Thanks for your response. It’s good to know someone listens. Take care of yourself and yours ad have a pleasant holiday season. God bless you and yours, Keith.