Nice thing about Shotguns is the ability to mix and match, so to speak. We would carry ours in what was called “station safe.” 5 rounds in the weapon and it was your choice on how it was loaded. Those 5 had to be three of double-aught buckshot and two slugs. Could do 3 then 2 or 2 then 3 but you could not mix them up. But the stopping power of a shotgun is something else to see. (Not pretty mind you but oh so effective)
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I would like to add that a shotgun with slugs runs the additional danger of over penetration. A slug will go through multiple layers of drywall and potentially hit something/someone you don’t want to hit. I have a shotgun and I have slugs for it but they stay in the safe, “just in case”.
Having been a cop for 32 years, it is my opinion that a handgun for HD is the best tool. During many training sessions, it became apparent to me that a long gun in close quarters is difficult to use at best and dangerous at worst.
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And you’re correct on the slugs. Personally I do not have them in my personal 870 for this reason. But an argument based on my set up of using 3/2 might mean that if 3 rounds loaded with 00Buck hasn’t worked then those 2 slugs may be needed. But I do prefer my handgun with mounted light on it for the “close-quarters” aspect of things.
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I’m fairly new to guns the past couple years, but decided a shotgun wasn’t a good match for me for HD for a few reasons.
My home is small - roughly 900sqft - so if there’s somebody breaking in, they aren’t going to be more than about 30’ away in any direction. Would be too hard for me to move around in such a small space with a big shotgun.
I’ve had surgeries in the past on both shoulders, so the thought of doing much training with a shotgun isn’t high on my list of desired things to do.
I did get an AR15 kit, but that’s still a future project more to add interest to target shooting, but then it’ll still be at the house if really needed for something.
I actually went in the opposite direction for HD - a Ruger LCR 327 with 32 magnum ammo in it. I can shoot that one handed, with either hand, around doorways without exposing much of me. And it’s probably enough to give me time to get to the CZ 9mm if more is needed. But in the back of my mind I keep wondering what that 9mm going off would be like in a small 20’ x 20’ room with no ears on. Hopefully I’ll never find out an answer to that.
If I did have a much larger house, two story, etc… then I might be more apt to treat a shotgun or AR15 as a better option. Somebody downstairs, with me upstairs pointing a shotgun/rifle down at them would likely be more persuasive.
Also probably depends on the surrounding area outside. If I were in a very rural area with many bears, and the HD is to protect things from a bear, that might also change what I’m likely to have for it. But frankly, that’s part of the reason I don’t live in a very rural area with lots of bears around. I don’t want to have to defend against one, and don’t want to shoot one, either.
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Keep in mind Gregory that an AR, in my humble opinion, is not a very good weapon for defense of a Bear but others may disagree. And keep in mind that a shotgun does not have to be fired from the shoulders although most certainly do this. But a handgun is still a great HD weapon as well as a weapon more than capable of stopping animals if you’re using the right one. Sometimes more rounds can be better than the more powerful ones. I keep a very sweep Kimber 1911 in my kitchen and while a great manstopper it only has 7 rounds loaded. My Canik has 20 rds while my G-19 has 16. I’ll take my chances with the 20 or 16 rds when it comes to HD against people and/or an animal. Again, just my opinion and some are sure to disagree.
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I can use most any shotgun to hit any clay target or game bird from 10 to 50 yards away moving at any angle and any speed and acceleration or deceleration they are physically capable of in practically any light condition with 75% to 100% accuracy. If an attacker (human or animal) was vectoring toward our wife or kids, most of us stationary target shooters would just be shooting sparks in the air. We think we are John Wick with an AR or a hand gun. We aren’t.
Bad guys always move and sometimes shoot back. When FIBSA kicks in I will take a 12 gauge pump loaded with two #4 shells, followed by lead BBs, and finally slugs for home defense over any handgun or rifle because my margin of error is much, much bigger and MOA stationary target shooting skills will go straight out the window.
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I’ll stick with my Beretta 1301 Tactical with the 7rd extension for HD thank you very much. Backup is a Springfield XD/M with a 32 rd magazine. If more than those are needed I should have left Dodge City long ago.
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I’ve heard some good arguments on both sides.
What Is an Argument?
Perhaps the simplest explanation of what an argument is comes from Monty Python’s “Argument Clinic” sketch:
- An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a definite proposition. …an argument is an intellectual process… contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.
This may have been a comedy sketch, but it highlights a common misunderstanding: to offer an argument, you cannot simply make a claim or gainsay what others claim.
An argument is a deliberate attempt to move beyond just making an assertion. When offering an argument, you are offering a series of related statements which represent an attempt to support that assertion — to give others good reasons to believe that what you are asserting is true rather than false.
In this case I’m convinced it is more a matter of comfort than a matter of function.
This coupled with the fiercely independent nature of the community:
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Several years ago a guy demonstrated that by using several guns and the most popular calibers inside an empty home. I can no longer find that video on YouTube but it convinced me that the .223, not necessarily the 5.56 because of higher pressures, is the way to go for home defense in an area where you’re surrounded by homes and a park.
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I almost shot one of four ex~cons with my shotgun who tried to break into my home while I was there with my handicapped mother. I had already been speaking to a deputy on the phone before all hell broke loose. After about a minute of speaking with the deputy, three ex~cons ran out of the their car and up the driveway. The one who I came close to shooting made it to the backyard and was about to break a French door with his thick green gloves. The mere presence of my shotgun pointed at the doors toward him was enough to stop the threat. I had taken a shotgun class where I shot my gun several times. I actually grew to enjoy the stout recoil, as strange as that may sound. Maybe it was because everyone was overjoyed and excited to be shooting all kinds of guns that day. But in retrospect, I would rather use an AR or even an AK for multiple threats, especially more than two. You have to consider making follow~up shots, and a pump action shotgun would definitely be slower than a semiautomatic gun for that reason alone. I live too close to several homes and a park across the street. Lots of children and families regularly walk around and use the park every day. It’s literally like a Leave It to Beaver neighborhood, which is classified as such by a website that grades neighborhoods. I need to consider what ammo will penetrate less, and in that case it would be .223 compared to even 9mm. I saw a video several years ago of a person who shot several guns inside an empty home using the most popular kinds of calibers. The .223 penetrated the least to my surprise at that time. But I live behind enemy lines, so I can’t choose whatever gun I want for home defense for several reasons. The guns that are closest to me for home defense are my full~sized gun next to my pillow, and my compact Shield on the opposite side on a small bench (which was supposed to be my EDC for conceal carry). Both are chambered in .40 cal. My 94 .32 Winchester rifle is like new despite it being from 1913 or earlier. That one is between my bed and the wall and is what I’d most likely use as my go~to rifle because I live in a socialist state. An AR or AK would just place me in the evil category because of stupid perceptions and limitations by politicians and leftists. I’d want to minimize the chances of a prosecutor using anything against me in court.
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Not sure which lines you are stuck behind but something like a Ruger Mini 14 is legal pretty much everywhere. Even the Dems specifically exempted it from their recently proposed assault weapon ban. Add a wooden or laminated stock and stick to the 20 round mags (or 10 if you have to) and it looks almost like any other hunting rifle. Not that looks should matter but ignorant people tend to have stupid ideas.
Using a rifle that makes you less likely to miss and potentially hit an innocent bystander should not be held against you. A good lawyer should be able to explain that over the ignorant arguments of an anti gun prosecutor.
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Your situation almost mirrors mine. There’s never been a home invasion here that I know of, but there have been a few forced entry burglaries mostly because those homes were unoccupied. Most likely burglars were studying the homes and knew the best time to break and enter. But I think we were the first to experience an attempted home invasion on our block, followed later by the neighbors who live indirectly across us. When I did experience that attempted home invasion, I felt like I was in a dream and I almost panicked. Those guys were big and seasoned criminals. The second thing I did after irrationally yelling at the deputy on the phone to hurry up and send their cars, was to tell him I was grabbing my shotgun. I literally willed myself to become calm and prepare myself for a potential gunfight. I was right in assuming that LE would be delayed. They arrived 14 minutes later. I don’t know if I would have been able to effectively and quickly rack my shotgun for follow~up shots if I needed to. There were four ex~cons total but two were somewhere near my front entrance and another already in the backyard. The other two could have easily jumped the gate on the other side, and the fourth (who was the driver and who I was completely unaware of at that time) could have joined them as well. In that case an AR (or even AK) would definitely have been the right tool to use.
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I appreciate your advice. Not all of CA is commiefornia but a lot of it is. There are some real avid 2A people and LE stations in counties and cities that would make you think you were in NH, AZ, MT, or TX. And ironically, I live at the edge of one of the worst counties and within a few miles of two shall issue counties. It’s not that I don’t have other tools besides the ones I mentioned, it’s just that the ones I would most likely use wouldn’t be in the same category of “evil, black rifles.” I have standard capacity magazines that are legal but I would have to be real careful in knowing when to use them.
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As an out of stater who does a lot of work in SoCal I can sympathize with having to deal with all the rights limitations/violations! Could see how using your legally owned standard capacity mags might be an issue in the anti rights counties.
In CA with that 10 round mag limit, a shotgun starts to make more sense. Though a semi auto with an extended tube would be my first choice in a shotgun. Still think I would choose the Mini 14 with a 10 round mag against home invaders who are trying to get into my house from the outside. The Ruger PC carbine would be legal as well though with a ten round limit I would want the extra power of the .223 rounds.
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My only concern about a rifle for H/D is that they are able to go out of my house and into the house next door where a shotgun most likely will not do that. I own both and the nine mm. My thought is use the one that I can get to the fastest.
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What is another word for “stir up”?
Synonyms for stir (up) abet, brew, ferment, foment, incite, instigate, pick, provoke , www.merriam-webster.com
But not argument??? Any weapon with which the user is competent and can timely employ.
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Nothing wrong with “cruiser ready,” BUT if you need to rack it in SD you must be prepared to pull the bang switch too! Otherwise shaking a pair of maracas will do you as much good.
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This gem is right up there with the recent Twitter advice to get a track starter’s gun so the sound will scare the bad guys away! If they’re in my house, they’re going down.
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I have a lot of confidence with my G19 15 yards and in … but my new braced and red-dotted Ruger 9mm PC Charger is so easy to handle and shoot! It’s Goldilocks just-right - not too big/long, and shoots tight groups quickly. Agreed that it’s a “perfect” HD firearm! (There is a 18.5" pump 12ga in the cabinet, well, I guess, just because. But I don’t ever want to have to fire that thing in the house!)
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many of us already have a 12 gauge shotgun to hunt in lower Michigan, etc., so its already in the house.
I found a Tractor Supply branded Streamlight forend with 1,000 Lumen flashlight for my Remington 870 for $50 bucks. (always identify the target first).
Regarding escalation of response, I load 2 slugs, 2 double ought buckshot shells, and then one bird shot/target load, so they come out in reverse order: first shot is bird shot (as close as I will get to a “warning shot”), then 2 buckshots, and then 2 deer slugs.
Even being 6’2" and 215 pounds, I am relying on adrenaline to ignore the shoulder punishment.
That having been said, I am always within 20 seconds of my EDC, so the '870 really is a worst-case backup. At least I’ve tried to make it HD-friendly.
Please respond with feedback on my approach for escalation of load.
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