I see your point. It’s not about the money for me. It’s about no one loosing their life. Plus I think showing them my gun could be considered an escalation.
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Is it though? The bad guy has already shown his gun, which I absolutely interpret as a threat of deadly force. Drawing my gun is then defensive, not an aggressive act. Rational defensive actions are, by definition, not escalation.
I don’t want anyone to loose their life either especially me and mine. Besides, just because I draw my weapon doesn’t mean I have to fire it. If the act of presenting my weapon defuses the situation, problem solved. Actually firing is a last resort when all other options have been exhausted. It’s the last thing I want to do, but it is on the list.
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Ummm brother man, you have 100% muddied the waters, at least for me anyways, about being anywhere in Salt Lake City as being safe. 
About the only way I am going to Salt Lake City is in a formed infantry formation and moving in bounding squads with someone on continuous overwatch.
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Nuff said.
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Excellent option Sir…
First the Distraction and if unfortunately Danger Close there’s the Krav/Nuts, Throat Punch/ Ear clap option
If I’m with someone else? There’s NO Tuck Tail/Running—My Zig has lost it’s Zag and I’m
not comfortable in my ability to stay on my stilts Guiding another out of an encounter anymore. If I ;turtle’ I may not only be dooming me but my companion as well. So it’s either draw (then shoot /no shoot) or get up close and personal go full Animal and don’t stop until threat is down and bleedin profusely !
These days I won’t take a chance and wait and see once the threat is revealed. Too many variables.
You start it, I will finish it. (and this is why I Train), this scenario is too basic. A bunch of things can chance in an instant–Is he high?, How big? Alone? Is there possible cover close? Street traffic? Innocents close?.. In that moment you need to decide FAST! EDC Knife to the neck? Hmmmmmm?
No, I’m not blood thirsty, I’m Violent…There’s a difference. 
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Good question. If I was sure he would de-escalate if I showed him my gun I would. Then that is the reason you posted it. To get our opinions. If I had to choose if showing him my gun was a de-escalation or escalation
I would choose escalation because I don’t like showing my gun.
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The simplicity of the scenario was intentional. The idea was to envision a confrontation which presented suddenly in a location that would, at worst, rate “condition yellow”; someplace you had already decided presented a low threat level.
Of course. There are always too many variables wherever we are, whatever we’re doing. No human being can take in everything going on around them. At any given moment our sense are being bombarded by hundreds, if not thousands of individual bits of stimuli which may or may not be relevant to your immediate situation. To be fully aware you would have to identify, interpret, assess, and make a decision about each of them. Most of it can be dismissed as background, static but you never know which bit will turn out to be important. Often that’s only apparent in hindsight.
I made the scenario as simple as possible so that each person could flesh out the details according to their own viewpoint experiences, and imagination, and then respond. I guess it worked out okay since so far there have been many good and thoughtful ideas presented.
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This simplicity is common in Chicago area.
We usually have two scenarios:
- You face the muzzle directed at you while the other person is robbing you
- Assailant shows his concealed firearm trying to scare you, then if you comply he or his companion robs you
First scenario has only one outcome and the best is to be prepared and keep your documents and valuables in deep pocket and fake wallet with expired cards to be easily accessible.
Second scenario is what we discuss. What we are going to do? It depends but definitely we never should do the same as assailant - brandishing the firearm. It’s not a duel from Wild West times… You either run away or draw. You need to act, not give your opponent more time and opportunity to harm you.
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Very well said!
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Unfortunately, these days my grappling abilities are limited. One (only one) of the reasons I CC is to be able to defend myself while remaining out of arm’s reach from any assailant, if at all possible.
That said, not a bad option for those able and skilled and confident enough to go hands on.
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If anything, those of us that have stepped across the 60 line need to pay real close attention to the dispute between the mind and body, My mind tells me to fight like a 30 year old, my body says WTF Dude?
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My wife tells me the same thing, my sons still believe in me.
I must agree with my wife.
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So does mine, very energetically. 
She sometimes pulls me over for doing 30 in a 60 zone.
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Ive been disabled for far to much of my life. I feel (mentally) like I am still HIM. But my body reminds me that my Gangster Mouth is writing checks my Hummingbird Azz can’t cash.
Hence my need for opposable thumbs so I can use my tools.
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That’s Funny ! Sad and True but still funny
(You guy’s are Twisted!..I Like that)
I never felt my 20’s I think I just right to 40 and stayed there for 40 years!
Surprisingly all the metal bits and hoodo’s have stayed good and solid Doc’s said .these things would last 20 years and they’ve lasted over (30) and that’s with high mileage. I feel like I got a great deal on a used Chevy. (Has to be American amirite?)
I don’t talk or feel like a 60+ year old but just ask me to Snow shovel and my body tells me different!
That’s why I moved South…I just never expected the Border to get so…busy.
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He shows intent to use lethal force for his crime, you do not know if he really would let you off. I would pull and take aim to beat him to the draw. If the perp draws, you are in the right. If he runs, call the police and inform of the situation - essentially beat him to the phone call to police since he could skew it that your threatened him first. Ideally, try to get a recording prior to drawing and verbalize he has a weapon.
Key is to beat the draw and call police first. Then again, let us see what the lawyers would say.
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It’s a shoot scenario not a show scenario. I wouldn’t show my gun without drawing it with the intention of shooting. I might get additional data in time to not shoot after the draw.
I often carry in a “duty to retreat” state. If I can safely retreat, I must do so. However, the complexity of family seems to make it less safe to retreat.
I agree with @Nathan57 about moving. However, when I think this through with a family in the vicinity, where do I move? Does moving draw the attention of the attacker towards me and, thus, away from my family? Or does it leave my family exposed? (It probably depends.) As morbid as it sounds, I’d rather my body suck up those rounds than my wife or children’s bodies. Hopefully, no one gets shot.
What hasn’t been discussed here is what happens if he does discontinue the assault after you’ve drawn on him? Masad Ayoob addresses this in his class and recommends some specific steps you take to hold him at gunpoint. You absolutely MUST make the perp believe you are willing to shoot. Criminals are used to having guns pointed at them. They aren’t afraid of guns. They are afraid of a gun pointed at them by someone who indicates he is willing to shoot them. Do you have the ability to stand there with your fur up and fangs out like a lion guarding his mate and cubs? That could mean all the difference in the world in how this ends.
Then do you know how to respond when the police arrive…
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My general thinking is that you are clearly presenting the most significant threat to the threat and as such you are virtually guaranteed to be the one being shot at…having your family behind you when you are being shot at seems like the worst place for them to be. So, move away. General lateral “off the X” movement would seem to be a solid generic response for ‘what movement’
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I disagree. Leaving a weaker opponent exposed while you retreat will most certainly be seized upon by the scumbag. If he wants you back in the fold, if he wants you disarmed, if he want to own you he simply steps up, grabs wifey and says “Go Ahead, take shot…” . Now you have a real problem, you can’t shot at him without the risk of injuring your partner AND he has control of wifey, he has a gun and you just handed him the advantage.
What retreat? I think you misunderstood drawing and moving laterally to get off the X while engaging the threat. Doubt there is time there to step up and grab someone and turn it into a movie scene.
That’s a heck of a move for him to step up, go past me (who is now about 90* to his side), draw the gun, and physically take control of my wife (presumably with one hand while holding his drawn gun with the other hand), all without me stopping him as I have both hands free…and all faster than I can draw and engage with two hands (and he is responding to my action, I’m drawing before he is, and he is going to react to that, draw, cover distance, and take a hostage??)
But if he does take her hostage like a movie and I’m six feet away, she knows to escape low and I’ve got plenty of target to work with left up top
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