The presence, or absence, of a victim. We could start there maybe
Does it infringe on another person’s Liberty? No? Then it doesn’t need to be a crime.
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Are you suggesting drug addiction is a victimless crime???
That families are not impacted, individual’s life prospects and health are not impacted?
The only angle to argue de-criminalization of drugs, IMO, is body autonomy. Still, dealers are not off the hook in this scheme.
I am stating that a person choosing to ingest drugs is not the business of the government, should not be a crime, and should not land the person in prison (with the rest of us forced to pay for that incarceration)
Does it infringe on another person’s Liberty? No? Then it doesn’t need to be a crime.
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Agreed! To the extent we are discussing consumption of drugs in privacy of one’s home.
Any crime under influence is an enhancement to the charges. Homeless addicts need to be isolated from society, until cured from their addiction. I want American children to reclaim the city streets, and play safely once again.
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This seems like it could be interpreted as indicating being homeless is a crime.
What is the crime that being an addict is an enhancement to?
Not a crime, but we cannot surrender our streets to the homeless encampments, cause these are areas of crime. Call it what you want, resettlement, medical shelters - homeless camps are to be torn down.
Any crime. Vehicular. Assault. Public indecency. B&E.
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Realized just prior to the Covid fiasco that this country is circling the drain!
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Have long said nothing will deter violent crime better than a good old fashioned public hanging!
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One problem is that the people committing the biggest crimes that negatively impact the most people rarely spend time in prison. When they do it is usually a short stay in a private cell with decent amenities.
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While I believe Ronald Reagan’s push to de-institutionalize mentally ill people has been a disaster I’m not sure I’m comfortable with policies that round up huge swaths of people without due process.
Simply tearing down the camps just pushes all the problems somewhere else.
There are a lot of people homeless for a lot of different reasons. I know of a few families living out of trailers who have to keep moving around to avoid being legally hassled. The parents have full time jobs and the kids are in school but they can’t afford to rent a place let alone own a home at current prices.
The system is broken on so many levels. I have no idea how to fix it all. Especially when our government is completely bankrupt and morally corrupt.
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Something tells me a family like this is not even 1% of 1% of the homeless. Yet the number of people and businesses experiencing problems because of other homeless is tremendous. The society cant just sit back, acknowledging the issue and doing nothing. Gotta start removals and isolating most dangerous ones from society.
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Yes but 12% of 2M is less than 12% of 350M. By necessity larger populations means more people locked up.
Im not so sure. When I drive through the nearby forest service land the last couple years I see a lot of the same trailers all year with the same families shifting around to try to avoid getting caught breaking the 14 day camping limit. When I visit the in-laws in CA I see roads with endless lines of old campers and trailers that obviously haven’t moved in a very long time. I’ve read quite a few stories of families living in cars. I think the number of employed homeless is growing rapidly.
There is no way my wife and I could afford a home in our area if we had to buy it now and we make noticeably more than the average family income for our area. Even renting a tiny single family home at current prices would leave us with almost nothing left over to put towards emergencies, retirement savings and college funds. I honestly have no idea how the average family can afford to live here.
Removing homeless people doesn’t remove the problem it just sends it somewhere else. I’m all for jailing violent criminals, homeless or not. But unless their crimes are incredibly serious that only gets them off the streets for a couple days, months or maybe a few years and then they are right back out in the same situation except they probably got out with a bunch of useful tips on how to be a better more violent criminal next time.
Would be nice if there were mental health institutions for those who are incapable of taking care of themselves. Maybe more halfway houses, work training centers and drug rehab facilities for those who are curable would help. But who is going to pay for all of that? Our bankrupt State and Federal governments? Even if they found or printed the money it would likely just go towards the many corrupt programs like those in CA were they spend hundreds of thousands per homeless person per year and usually don’t end up getting and keeping them off the streets for any significant amount of time.
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I would argue it absolutely infringes on another’s person’s liberty. A person hooked on drugs will do anything to get the $$ to buy his next fix. Breaking into my home, mugging me, robbing a store absolutely effects how much I have to pay, how far I have to go, the availability of products available to purchase.
I think you’re arguing for the ppl that pick up bottles and cans in one state and takes them to another to get the deposit that wasn’t paid when purchased. That is fraud which drives up prices and taxes.
I would be interested to know the percentage of drug addicts that commit crimes to get their fixes? I know it is higher than 0 but strongly suspect it is not 100% either. In States like CA the homeless people have access to all sorts of government money and I see many homeless who seem to do pretty well just sticking their hands out on a busy street corner. I guess you could throw all of the ones that don’t have licenses in jail for illegal panhandling but what problem is that going to solve?
I suspect the majority of people committing fraud by transporting cans and bottles across State lines likely are not homeless. That requires a working vehicle of large enough size to make it profitable. I’ve never seen a homeless person picking up cans here in AZ where we don’t have the redeemable fee. But I see it all the time in CA. I don’t think it is a crime to pick up empty cans?
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Just came down State Street, 7:00am this morning, this is what Homeless means in Salt Lake City.
A naked guy pissing in the #2 lane, yelling at the cars that have to change lanes to go around him.
A guy walking down the sidewalk finger gunning, with recoil, every car that drives by.
6 cop cars, 2 ambulances, cops with guns drawn pulling the tarps off of the shopping carts blocking the sidewalk.
Woman simply walk across the street mid block , no looking both ways, don’t wait for traffic to clear just walk out in front of the cars.
I could go on…
Are you good with your 12 year old daughter watching a filthy, intoxicated, naked man fire hosing the the street in front of your car while yelling “I’m going to kill you”?
Do you feel safe with a guy that for all intents and purposes, in his head, is shooting every car that goes by?
Comfortable with hitting and injuring a homeless mentaly ill elderly woman that decided to step out in front of you?
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And also, the US has the highest % of the population incarcerated in the world.
The US has more incarcerated than China…which has a far higher population…for one example.
The US doesn’t have so many incarcerated just because of a decent sized population, the US has so many incarcerated because we incarcerate a higher % of our population than anybody else
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If the person breaks into a home, mugs someone, robs a store, then they have committed a crime and can be arrested/tried/sentenced/incarcerated for doing so.
Realize that the argument about making all these drugs illegal and imprisoning people for it, because some people addicted to some drugs commit violent crimes, is eerily similar to putting you and I in jail for owning or selling guns and magazines because some people use guns to commit crimes.
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Are you saying that is completely legal if not for the prohibition on alcohol? (the ‘intoxicated’ part?)
Alcohol is perhaps more guilty of ‘causing’ all these things (let’s introduce DUI/DWI into this, good opportunity)…it should of course be illegal along with the other drugs as well…yes?
But my answer is that if the action you listed is legal if not for being intoxicated, then maybe we need to make it illegal to tell someone you are going to kill them or make it illegal to be naked in public? Let’s start there…make it illegal to be naked in public
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If it’s legal for her to do that, why should I hit her with my car? If it’s legal for her to do that, wouldn’t hitting her with my car mean I’m in the wrong?