Why you need a reload

Attaboy!

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I should probably try to carry a second gun. The more I look at the objectivity of it, reloads for more ammo or fixing a gun are so rareā€¦and a second gun not only solves both of those problems but also solves the ā€œgun is inoperableā€ problem and in certain rare circumstances could solve the ā€œthe person with me doesnā€™t have a gunā€ problem (I do have a few people, family members and friends, all licensed themselves, I would give a gun to if I had two, and whom do not typically carry their ownā€¦)

hmmm.

May need to get a Glock 42 and find a way to carry it as well

Who carries a second gun, what, and where/how?

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I carry a Beretta Tomcat .32 in my outside coat pocket in winter in case I cannot get to my primary on my right hip. :+1:

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Whatā€™s the estimate of no shots fired defensive uses? 90%+? That gets us back into the why not just carry a 5 shot revolver or even a 2 shot derringer discussion.

The answer for me is that averages are made up of a broad range of numbers. If the average defensive gun use ends after 3 shots then that means many likely end after 1 but more than a few must go over 10 or 15. If Iā€™m going to go through the hassle of carry a firearm then why not add a few more ounces of weight to make sure that I can handle as wide an array of scenarios as reasonably possible?

Ideally I want to have enough ammo in the handgun to not have to reload during an event. But I also like having the option to reload in case things donā€™t go as planned, I am faced with more threats than one mag can handle and/or if I have to worry about more trouble arriving before help does. That just gives me a little more peace of mind which is well worth the minor increase in weight and space for me.

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Tomcat?

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Bobcat?

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Well, a second pistol or back-up may be a better idea than a spare magazine or speed-loader.
Maybe a heavier/bulkier option.
I could see a J-frame in coat pocket and a semi-auto in a shoulder holster or on the belt. That would provide some flexibility in tactics, as well as some redundancy.

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Yes. Sorry.

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I donā€™t know where to source the data but IIRC the no shots fired is ballpark 80%. These of course donā€™t go into the ā€œaverage gunfightā€ rule of 3 yards/3 rounds/3 seconds or any of that, those are for shots fired examples

So, why not a 2 shot derringer? Because 20% of 500k-2 million is still 100,000-400,000.

Why not a 5 shot? Donā€™t have numbers there. Itā€™s a fair question, a lot of people do carry only a 5 shot, and even if they God forbid ever need, it will ā€œprobablyā€ be enough. Though that probably is certainly a far lower % than if they had 10+, let alone 15+, in the gun.

Itā€™s a matter of exactly how far out onto the edges of the bell curve you want to go.

And there is no wrong answer.

Perhaps a 2 shot derringer covers 80%ā€¦a 5 shot snub covers 90%ā€¦a P365 basic 10+1 covers 97%ā€¦G19 15+1 covers 99.7%ā€¦and a G19 with spare mag covers 99.8%ā€¦and a G19 with G26 bug covers 99.9%ā€¦

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I had a 42. It was a nice comfortable shooter but it was not overly small (about the same size as a P365) and the capacity is very low. If things got crazy and I felt I needed to lug around multiple pistols I would probably switch my EDC micro 9 for my home defense 9 and front pocket carry my LCP Max as a backup. It is nowhere near as fun to shoot as the 42 was but it is noticeably smaller, holds twice as many rounds and I can shoot it just about as fast and accurately.

But in a situation where I needed to empty my 15+1 9mm if Iā€™m not already full of holes Iā€™ve likely gained some distance and or made it to cover and would probably prefer to reload the 9 than reach for a pocket pistol.

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I want to point out, a lot of people like to compare themselves to a cop and say, ā€œWell Iā€™m not a cop, so I donā€™t have to carry a reload.ā€

This was a lunatic shooting into a business with an AR. Imagine walking to your car outside of a mall, and all of a sudden youā€™re getting shot at with an AR, and it disables your vehicle. You will most likely be put in the same situation the officer put himself in. Even if your car is not disabled you still have to get to your keys and your car is a bullet magnet.

Police often encounter ambush situations, and Iā€™d say there is also a likelihood of that happening to us civilians.

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Can you can say that there havenā€™t been any? Can you say that there havenā€™t been hundreds?
No.
Considering how little documentation there is of defensive firearm uses at all, it isnā€™t surprising that many of the ones we actually know about arenā€™t reported with that particular detail.
The fact that we canā€™t find documentation of something that isnā€™t documented isnā€™t in any way proof that it doesnā€™t happen.
But all that is meaningless.
A recognized expert on the topic just literally told us that we need to carry a reload. Meanwhile, Johnny Rambo Wannabeā€™s who are not actual experts on the topic are spouting off about how they donā€™t need more than one mag to take down an attacker - as if they have any idea of what that is really like.
Seriously, I DO NOT CARE how often a reload is needed or not. As far as Iā€™m concerned, ONCE is more than enough if it happens to be me.
Take the training that is offered here. Listen to these knowledgeable people and stop trying to show how much smarter you are than they are.
Just because someone canā€™t find a single instance of something that is probably not even documented when it happens is not a convincing argument. Itā€™s the equivalent of saying that you donā€™t think your refrigerator light goes out when you close the door because youā€™ve never seen it happen.

I have seen my refrigerator light go out when I closed doorā€¦as well as when I pressed the switch that the door presses when it closes.

Thatā€™s the fundamental difference in how we approach the decision.

Fortunately we all (generally, check your state laws) get to decide the gun, spare mag, spare gun, body armour, first aid, less than lethal, knife, etc whatever, we carry.

And we donā€™t all decide based on the same criteria or decision making process.

Perhaps we have different ā€œneedsā€ based on how we approach the decision. Maybe for you, a spare magazine is a need, because you decided it is a need for yourself, and only you get to decide that for yourself.

Do you carry a backup gun?

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He did. I usually listen to Johnā€¦heā€™s a great source for the critical importance and value of carrying pepper spray I quote and reference often on that topic. First aid gear as well.

I still think Iā€™m pretty well off with the 16-18 rounds in my gun though.

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If that is directed at me, let me take exception.
Iā€™m not trying to prove anything. Iā€™m just saying that I feel comfortable, given my circumstances and skill sets, in carry a 5-shot wheel gun most days.
If 15 + 30 rounds to makes you feel safe, by all means, go for it. :v:

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Itā€™s not directed at youā€¦youā€™re good John.

I think most of us would still recommend considering more than the 5 shotā€¦like maybe that P365 you mentionedā€¦but most likely youā€™ll never need a gun, and even if God forbid you do, most likely the 5 shot you know how to use and have on you will be adequate.

And itā€™s ultimately your decision entirely, regardless of what anyone else tells you that you ā€˜needā€™ (or donā€™tā€¦plenty of people would argue you donā€™t ā€˜needā€™ a gun at allā€¦soā€¦donā€™t listen to the ones who tell you donā€™t need something eitherā€¦)

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The P365 is growing on me. :wink:

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The 365X has been calling my name lately.

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I have big hands. I put a Wilson Combat frame on mine and like it better.
No issuesā€¦aside from only getting 11 rounds in a 12-round magazineā€¦through 500+ rounds of FMJ and JHP.
Kinda reminds me of the old Colt 1903ā€¦not sure why.
Too early for me to recommend, but it seems a solid pistol and a pleasure to carry. I suspect it will take over as my daily carry (except in bear country).

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Iā€™m a big P365 fan. Small package but good capacity and reasonably fast and accurate. There are other similar options out there now as well.

In the what people might need front. I live in a very safe area but often have to work in sketchy areas. The trouble I and my coworkers have run into often ran in packs. 3 to 4 and occasionally more trouble makers were not uncommon. Distances were not always close and cars and other cover were often involved. Iā€™m pretty good at avoiding trouble but have had a couple close calls and some of my coworkers had even closer calls including being shot at. They all wished they were armed but our sketchiest work areas are in CA where only the criminals are allowed to carry weapons.

Guess what I am saying is not all threats are one or two thugs who walk up to you in the open at close range to ask for your wallet. Things can get complicated and more bullets can equal more options.

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