October 1I have my Millenium PT111G2C, At my age Guns just are not my main priority anymore like when I was younger William
In Reply To
October 1I sure do - have a few of those scars myself and a broken ear drum in 6th grade from a Nun slapping me with a cupped hand over my left ear. Oh the joys of Catholic School - great education if you survived the disciple. So what do you shoot I currently have a CZ-P07 and a Walther PPQ M2 my EDC is the…
Understand totally. I never owed a weapon until 7 yrs ago when I purchased my Mossburg 500 12 ga. Have branched outa little since then but have myself set now. Just for home defense and personal protection. Good talking with you. Keep in touch.
I’m totally amazed by all the educational experts we have posting here. I wonder how many of them ever attend a school board meeting…just saying.
I have and always wear a 2A shirt!
The problem, if it really exists, can and should be resolved at the local level. A bedrock of American public education is local control. What that means is that if one disagrees with their schools dress code the place to address it starts at the next board meeting.
When I read comments about filing lawsuits or promoting some other rash action I’m reminded of Beto calling for a ban in ARs because someone used a shotgun in a crime. Before one goes off and condems all schools and teachers we should remember how we feel when we are condemmed for the stupid acts of a few deranged individuals. There are thousands of school districts and several hundred thousand teachers out there. Most dont give a thought about what kind of shirt a student wears. Painting with a broad brush is what the anti-gun crowd does. Don’t be like them.
And therein lies the rub. “Obscene” is relatively easy to objectively define as far as a dress code goes, but “disruptive” is open to all kinds of interpretations. If children who have been raised to be afraid of anything ‘gun!’ are freaked out by a shirt depicting a firearm, no matter how innocuous, then it’s disruptive by their reasoning. Plus, it’s far easier to punish one kid for his shirt than it is to educate a horde of sno…children who hold stu…erroneous ideas and can’t control their emotions.
You missed the key point.
. This means that if a school permits items like t-shirts with slogans, buttons, or wristbands, it has to permit them no matter what message they express.
I think I actually picked up on the key point.
[quote=“Michael7, post:45, topic:12290”]
.” The First Amendment prohibits schools from picking and choosing which views students are allowed to express. All views have to be treated equally, so long as they are not obscene or disruptive.
[/quote]Dr
To repeat, “so long as they are not obscene or disruptive.” All it takes is for one administrator to deem the gun shirt disruptive and out it goes. This is what I consider to be the key point. The " disruptive" designation will override the “free speech” argument every time in that setting.
We’ll just have to disagree.
On by me. No worries.
Just an additional thought here,
1)Not talking or fighting because it takes to much energy or waiting until it is a serious issue , is a loss- same effect as not being involved at all
2)since in a lot of places gun owners- will be in the minority(in school board meetings as an example) it might take flyers and education of parents for a while before going after the board
3)our actions teach our children,and while we often say let’s pick our battles,which as a grown up makes sense(esp where livelihood is concerned) it doesn’t necessarily make sense if all of our rights are under attack across the nation. The issue then is that there is a war being waged and every battle is important in a war(at least until a tactical or strategic plan is in place.
the battle might be won by looking at school funding rather than shirts,or test results where freedom of dress or individualism is lifted up or why the school isn’t teaching or allowing that to be taught. Possibly curriculum questions which go to who and what is being taught.
in today’s world when fact or lawful people( gun owners-) meet feely generalist people, we may have to entertain new ways to do battle without backing down,giving in or giving up.
Note Nevil Chamberlain didn’t help a thing in the end. Sometimes facts scare people more than having there head in the sand.
Sometimes you need to fill the hole with water,so their heads stay above ground
Just a thought
Where did a local school board get the power to second guess a SCOTUS ruling? The students are not required to suspend their rights to free speech until a monthly school board meeting occurs granting them the chance to beg for those rights to be returned.
Yes, I didn’t include the full quote, but I considered it in my question… From the original news story
“While there are no explicit school rules against T-shirts featuring guns, at a meeting last month with Schoenecker and his parents, Koopman explained that he has discretion to restrict clothing at school he deems inappropriate.”
Doesn’t sound like the t-shirt is something the school had prohibited, unless they have a problem with the word “LOVE”?
Greg, two SCOTUS cases drive this issue. The first is Tinker vs. Des Moines and the second (and more unfortunate ruling) is Plamer Plamer vs Waxahachie (a 5th Circut ruling) which the SC refused to take up this affirming the 5th circuit ruling.
Like most issues, not everyone agrees or even likes the outcome. Keep fighting my friend.
The 5th Circuit ruling is only applicable to the 5th Circuit. SCOTUS usually waits until several circuits have addressed an issue and there is a split among the circuits or it is an issue that the court is otherwise drawn to.
And looking at the Palmer case, since the schools regulation is content neutral, my expectation is that that other circuits would follow suit. The school in Palmer did not allow any shirts with a printed message.
It didn’t matter if it was a city name or a political candidate (as cited in the case), a four leaf clover or a marijuana leaf, they were all prohibited. It would not be much different than requiring a school uniform which is absolutely allowed.
I would expect better from someone that claims to be a USCCA Certified instructor which means you are a member. The first 2 groups are fine with me. However the ACLU for all they did in the past, has turned into nothing but a legal cesspool looking to keep their name out there. The only ones they work for these days are criminals and left wingnuts.
I generally agree with you with respect to the ACLU, but I have also seen them do good things for good people. I get the impression that the ACLU only gets press for the stuff they do for POS clients.
I also love the shirt. I have and always and always will be a believer in school uniforms. That would stop all the BS about having to keep up with or better than the others in the clothing area. It seems to work in other parts of the world and I’m sure it would here. When I was younger a few of my friends went to a Catholic school where the boys were required to wear a White Shire and Tie and the girls had to wear uniform jumpers with dark blue skirts. As an aside, I know this will be dating me, but back in the 50’s my high school tried to ban jeans mid year. The entire school showed up wearing them the next day. Being the wiser the school decided to wait and incorporate the ban in the dress code for the following year which worked out very well.
Better? I don’t "claim’ to be anything if you doubt my credentials you’re more than welcome to check with both organizations.
As for the ACLU I’m not a fan of them either as they will no longer take up any gun rights cases but they are still strong defenders of the 1st Amendment and have the necessary resources to bring to bear.
