Maybe tell your neighbor that the red flag laws being enacted could be applied to him.
Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Because bills have to follow a specific process to become law, a process that varies from state to state, and that all bills, and their amendments are all openly available to the public in some form, and the legislation process is open to the public, there is a non-rebuttable presumption that everyone knows the law of every place where they may be present.
As far as the âshall not infringeâ part, keep in mind that Heller and McDonald are relatively recent cases dealing with 2A jurisprudence. Heller was the first case to be decided that recognized the Second Amendment as a fundamental right, but, since it was in DC, it only applied to the federal government and federal territories and enclaves. It wasnât until McDonald was decided that SCOTUS decided that 2A was applied to the states through incorporation of the Fourteenth Amendment. (Not all rights in the Bill of Rights are applied to the states. As of now, the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 8th and most of the 6th Amendments have been held to apply to the states by SCOTUS.
The problem we have today is that this jurisprudence is in its infancy and there is not a lot of direction from SCOTUS so far. Comparing 2A to 1A, we know there are limitations to speech so we should also expect some limitations to arms. But there is no clear lines on where those limitations can be set. From a legal perspective, without looking at whether it has a meaningful application, is your right infringed if there is a 5, 10, 15 or 100 round magazine limit. Or does not allowing a threaded barrel, flash suppressor, silencer or muzzle brake infringe on your rights?
I know the answer for most of us on this forum is that none of that matters, any limitation is an infringement, but, until SCOTUS speaks on the issue, it is still an unanswered question.
These issues have been addressed by lower courts and there are conflicts between district court and circuits which leads us to the hodgepodge of laws across the country.
Hopefully, we will see some of these addressed by SCOTUS over the next few years, however, as we have seen in the past, these changes take a long time to go through the judicial process. And, until SCOTUS decides these questions, which we know will take years, we will continue to see the 2A debate continue on what constitutes an infringement.
8 Likes
Well you know, heâs younger and stupid. He says and I quote Nobody needs that much money. He said weâre heading to communism. 
He said the state will give everyone basic money. Apparently Grandpa Bernie will be stealing all of our money and investments. I asked him if he knew Bernie was a multimillionaire? He said that isnât true. I wasnât going to debate him, these young kids cannot even form a proper sentence let alone think clearly.
5 Likes
That is one thing hate the most when states add on to the bill of rights.
I was listening to Democratic primary-nominee âSloppy Joeâ and he said, âAll rights have limitations.â
I wanted to scream!
@TexasEskimo, Sorry I did not give a better example, @MikeBKY said it way better[For the fact of you talking about human rights found in the bill of rightsâŠ
When states try to implementing limitations on the first tenâŠthere is a huge problem[As you know] but it gets my blood boilingâŠ
4 Likes
[quote=âRandall318, post:754, topic:17219â]
Oh, you would know because there would be a revolution outside your door.
American Revolution II
I guess the big question is what do we do then??? Donât answer that! Donât want anyone getting into trouble.
3 Likes
Now ATF is changing rules again:
ATF Proposes Step to Make a National Gun Registry Easier
The ATF has issued new rules that will alter the format for Form 4473âs and make it easier to create a national gun registry.
Hereâs what we know. ATF agents have used annual inspections to electronically record the contents of Form 4473âs being kept by federal gun dealers. See here and here.
We also know that a software company exhibiting its wares at the Shot Show in Las Vegas has crafted a system where ATF can take the contents of all the dealerâs Bound Book entries by simply capturing them on a thumb drive.
The movie, Red Dawn, shows how the 4473 form can be used as a backdoor gun registry. In the movie, a Cuban commander orders an officer to obtain the 4473s from the sporting goods store, so the invading forces know who owns firearms.
(The Bound Book entries contain all of the buyerâs personal information and gun information which is on a Form 4473.)
We know that billionaire âMidget Mikeâ Bloomberg has made Universal Background Checks/National Gun Registries the centerpiece of his $2 BILLION campaign for the presidency â presumably because, if everyone with a gun has a 4473, then everyone with a gun will be in the national gun registry being compiled by ATF, using its copies of 4473âs.
And we know that the ATF is now trying to put the names of gun owners on the same page of the 4473 as the identifying information of the gun. See here.
But if theyâre successful with changing the 4473 in this way, it will be much easier for ATF to create a national gun registry by photographing paper documents.
So it appears that we have an answer to the almost inexplicable question of why ATF is crawling over glass now to reincarnate the format for the 4473 which was junked decades ago.
This is, of course, one piece of the National Gun Registry strategy.
But, given that ATF is required by law to receive comments between now and February 24, it is worth our time to let them know that we know what theyâre up to.
So please click here to urge our federal government to REJECT the proposed changes to the 4473 form.
Again, let them know that bureaucrats shouldnât be making it easier to register the firearms of law-abiding gun owners!
In liberty,
Michael Hammond
Legislative Counsel
7 Likes
I am surprised that Heller was a âFederal onlyâ decision since the Constitution was ratified in 1788 and DC wasnât founded until 1790?
3 Likes
The reason is that DC is not a state. It is a District created under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.
SECTION. 8.
The Congress shall have Power âŠ
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards and other needful Buildings
4 Likes
@MikeBKY Do I have to be a lawyer to get through the layers of compost on Gun Control vs 2A?
2 Likes
No, you donât need to be a lawyer, but it helps. I taught criminal law and criminal procedure (Constitutional law for criminal justice) for 10 or so years which kept me up to date and I have always been drawn to constitutional law, especially the civil war amendments.
You donât need to be a lawyer but legal education teaches you about the resources available and how to read and interpret the law, both statutory and case law.
4 Likes
@MikeBKY My point in asking that particular question is why do citizens of our country now have to second-guess every new law? Question every politicianâs underlying alliances and intent? The laws that these lawyers in VA are submitting donât pass a common-sense smell test but we all have to watch 'em like hawks with a hand on the Constitution and the other on a stack of legal rulings. No, I didnât forget the Word.
6 Likes
@MikeBKY Without reading the Article, can We The People sell it off on eBay? I have already listed CA and NY, both without a reserve. And still no hits.
6 Likes
I may be wrong in this assessment, but our legislators are no longer âone of usâ who goes off to the state/federal capital for a few months. Politics is now a career and an endgame. So the goal isnt to make sure their constituents are represented, the goal is to get re-elected.
6 Likes
I truly believe, as a country all elected Public Servants. Should have
-
Term Limits ( we can argue length)
-
Can never be involved in Lobbying. Once his term is over.
5 Likes
@Zee If king for a week, the only thing that would prevent me from removing the lot in congress is the thought of a bunch of idiots like AOC replacing them. All decisions would come to a grinding halt and look at the turmoil this freshman class has caused.
2 Likes
Itâs not bad idea but it would need congressional approval. And then theyâd grab another area, create another district, and would mess that up too!
3 Likes
Is anyone going to Richmond tomorrow to represent at the State Senate Committee on HB961? Iâm pondering itâŠ
2 Likes
I understand what you are saying and I agree. Unfortunately, there are those that believe these laws are âcommon senseâ compromises that will protect people, even though history has proven them wrong. As many have already said, nothing in any of these laws show how they plan on disarming criminals instead of law abiding citizens.
And then we look at the threads on NY and Chicago making it easier for ânon-violentâ offenders, including those who have committed crimes with firearms, to get out with little or no bail and then recommit crimes with firearms.
6 Likes
@Jeff-A1 if you were king you could abolish congress. Whether that would be a good or bad thing is questionable.
2 Likes