Hello and welcome @Charles626
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It is recommended that an active shooter in church be neutralized / controlled in 30 seconds. One study estimates the loss of congregants at the rate of 4.2 per minute. If a church’s leadership elects to field a team and not arm them then the question remains. How to subdue and control in 30 seconds? Col. Grossman’s study of the battlefield states that units or armies that panic and flee in retreat are annihilated. It is better to stand your ground. I think this fact informs the behavior needed for the security team. They must protect the flock. The methods and means are to be determined but retreat is not an option in my mind.
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That means the team must be armed and train to protect! Not “RUN, HIDE, FIGHT” against an armed active shooter, and be done quickly with full engagement.
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Armed if allowed. Other options are non-lethal systems and overpowering the attacker with numbers. Think Todd Beamer and “Let’s Roll”.
No greater love ……
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In some states you are required to retreat if you are able. Otherwise you will be in a bunch of legal hurt.
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While legally true, doesn’t make it right. I could live with myself a lot better in prison if necessary knowing I tried tostop a threat to children and others that if I ran away and heard them dying. There often is a big difference between what is “right” and what is “legal”. The places where this is the case need the laws changed.
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I actually got in contact with the local police department and had them come out to do an active shooter training. It was free and we had several members participate. It was a great start, but not the only training that a church safety or security team should have. I have set up other trainings, including first aid/CPR/AED I taught a conflict resolution class that I built using several books as study guides as well as personal experience, having been a security officer for several years, and I have a lot of other ideas for classes that I will either seek out trainers or build myself. But I do think it would be great to have some training, that is certified through USCCA.
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You hit the nail on the head there. There is ‘legal’ and there is ‘right’, but ‘right’ could put you in legal trouble. The question one has to ask is “Is it worth it to go to jail?” In this case, the answer is most probably yes.
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I am thankful to live in a stand your ground state. In Michigan, I am not required to run and hide, I do have the right to protect myself or others. I don’t understand how there are states in this country that can think that it’s better to hide when lives are at stake.
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It’s all about who gets to make the laws. When the gun grabbers are in charge, that’s what you get. I hope you stay a stand your ground state but with your guv I wouldn’t bet on it.
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Gun free zones make for soft targets. Soft targets make for the most commonly attacked Areas. Michigan has laws against being armed in a house of worship, but fortunately with the restrictions comes exceptions. As long as the pastor or minister or priest is willing to allow armed people in the congregation, it is permitted. I imagine there are very few churches that don’t have armed personnel. It is a sad day that we live in that that becomes necessary, but unfortunately, it is the truth of the state of our country.
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No, you are absolutely right. We are constantly battling the gun grabbers in our state. They have already passed red flag laws. I have been in contact with a few different groups about this issue. This is very problematic for me, as it should be for anybody with half a brain. Nothing says your rights are dependent on the government and your neighbor like saying you can have them taken away just because somebody else feels uncomfortable.
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Yup. We have red flag laws here too, and a gun registry and licensing at the whim of your local chief, and mag size limits and and and…
It’s all just gross
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Got a link?
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What are you looking for a link for?
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I’m a member in good standing.
I’m not part of the security team, not an elder or deacon.
I intentionally skipped training because, rightly or wrongly, I didn’t want anyone to know I’m armed other than my wife and kids.
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I understand the thought process and what you are saying. But that could be a little problematic from a security standpoint. Don’t get me wrong, we are always happy to have people wanting to protect the flock, even if it’s more incognito or gray man. The problem is, if the security team Is not aware that you are carrying, if they were to be an incident, heaven forbid, and you draw your firearm in order to help protect people, there is a chance you might be mistaken as more of part of the problem than part of the solution. In the heat of the moment, especially in a larger church, if a security member sees a firearm and it is not being held by somebody that they know is carrying, they could very easily mistake that person for being one of the active shooters. They have very limited time to make a split second decision, they may not be able to focus on who or where you are aiming your gun. Just something to consider when choosing to stay incognito. That is why, as the head safety officer at my church, it is required that I know who does and does not carry. I do not want to be responsible for harming the wrong person in the heat of the moment.
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Sheepdog.
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I have actually spoken with the people at Sheepdog ministry. A lot of the training cost more money than my Church can afford at the moment. I know it is definitely worth it and it will be something we use in the future. But at the same time, I believe in volunteering to train and teach when it comes to a house of worship. Not all churches, especially the smaller ones, can afford to pay for a lot of the training. Certain aspects I think are absolutely necessary to be certified in, particularly regarding firearms training. But other areas are more about teaching that does not require a state certification.
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