I pray the SB is using cover cause he’s a true chicken-sh!t! IF he is using cover he doesn’t have a constant bead on you (giving you more options to defend yourself). He may be using said cover to get off unaimed shots or thinking a Hostage may be a good idea to get away. Some of this crap is out of our control.
My Training was (and still is) YOU DON’T HAVE TO SHOOT!. The last thing I wish to add to my life is blood of an Innocent on my hands—My first goal is to SURVIVE, My secondary goal is to do no harm. Life isn’t TJ Hooker TV where you exchange shots till one of you gets lucky. There are way too many unhealthy scenarios where we all could get very dead out there. My job is to avoid confrontation. The situation you call is usually for a LEO to deal with. What I try to avoid is getting drawn into a mess where even if I survive I do not then have to deal with the friggin’ LAW, Courts, Civil suits etc.
If I don’t hesitate–everything is gravy after that.
Too many unknowns to say definitively what I would have done. I agree with a commenter that said it seemed the victims had prepared and had a plan. Hopefully the plan included protection of the innocents.
With innocents around and vulnerable to stray rounds, I believe my first thought would have been for de-escalation. Money and jewels can be replaced.
Again not enough information. I pray that the response was the right one.
It’s hard to tell without being in their shoes. They had a previous death during a robbery hanging in their heads. I think that played a lot into their decision making. I nor my daughter would have dropped like his Dad did. That changes everything. I probably would not have shot and taken my chances handing over what they wanted.
No, money cannot be replaced, neither “jewels”. Additionally, even if items are insured, there are always deductibles and depending on the asset, maximum amounts.
I have taken courses in use of firearms in public places. As many of you have said, it is imperative to be aware of what lies beyond your target. Your target can move making your shot miss and carry way beyond the target. Your bullet may travel through your intended target and hit someone in the line of fire behind your target. There is not a lot of time to make decisions in such a scenario, but we are responsible for any damage caused by a bullet we have fired. We must take due diligence to prevent injury to innocent persons.
So money and jewels are more valuable than life? You have no worry that while protecting “things” you wound or kill an innocent person?
If someone points a gun at me, someone I love, or another innocent human being, I will kill them. BUT I am not about to randomly act at the expense of another’s life. I will act at opportunity.
I hope I am not around when you start shooting.
Fast draw gunfights of the old west are a myth. I don’t think Jerry Miculek would care to draw against two guns pointed at him. And I am equally sure he wouldn’t do it in a crowd of people.
If this were a true story which I doubt, the guy that shot the criminals was one lucky sob. Yes, action beats reaction, but unless this guy was tier one, his drawing, shooting and hitting effectively two armed opponents with guns pointed at him, is at a skill level very, very few civilians possess.
Mike M.
Idpa matches are excellent training for awareness of hostage or good guy targets. It provides a stress level that tests your ability to react to the clock with other shooters. Helps you train your brain if the unthinkable happens.
OK, true story at least as far as three folks shot in the flea market. I see no details in the story. Hopefully, Mas Ayoob will look into it and write about it.
M
Where in my post did I state that? However, if your life or a loved one’s depended on the money that was stolen, then yes it would be at least equal to that life that would be saved. Is it better that a criminal destroys your life by stealing from you?
As a young adult, I had my car stolen. It was a great financial hardship, as I lost a lot of money. The bluebook value, less remainder of loan did not cover what I had paid into the loan. I lost years of savings. No, it did not physically hurt me, but the money I paid was not replaced by insurance, neither was all the years spent saving and paying that loan. Then having to go further into debt, taking a few more years to just get back to where I was prior to the theft. All that just so some punks could joy-ride and burn my car. I also lost some personal items in that car that were also not covered by insurance and not replacable.
How much is being put into financial hardship worth? I was poor growing-up, did not like being put into that situation. Thankfully, I am now in a position where that is highly unlikely to happen. And crime in my area is statistically non-existent.
I for one, say, I’ll make it as difficult as I possibly can for anyone to march in here and take stuff. I’m done with scumbags hiding behind “It’s stuff, I didn’t hurt anyone…”.
I never stated anything about me killing anyone. No, I have never been in a situation where killing anyone, nor even close to that was a thing. I was fortunate to not to be of age to be drafted, but I have had relatives, friends, schoolmates, etc., that have been in the military and have seen action, not that they speak in detail, but have made clear they have experienced things that civilians could not comprehend nor would want to.
I don’t have to experience it to know I don’t want to experience it, and that is why I am vigilant, use situational awareness and have learned non-lethal self-defense. Harming anyone is the last thing I want to do, but I will not back down if it is absolutely necessary. That is not bravado, that is reality. I will fight to protect my wife and daughter, and, of course, my own life.
I have had numerous conversations with my bil, former LEO and veteran, that has made clear it is my duty as husband of his sister, and father of my daughter, to protect myself - for them, and to protect them as a man, husband and father. It was he that convinced me to learn self-defense and get a CHP. That took a lot of introspection for me as a pacifist to overcome and understand, as he told me, my life is worth more than a criminal that will harm me or my family.
I used to live in an apartment so my home Defense weapon is loaded with frangible ammo. I used to carry extreme Defense ammo in my EDC, but after seeing the penetration, I switched to JHP.
I subscribe to the opinion that no I don’t think my stuff is more valuable than the bad guys life while at the same time that bad guy values my stuff over my life and the life of my family. And as the all the saying goes, I’d rather be judged by 12 then carried by six.
