Study: Concealed Carriers Do A Better Job Of Stopping Active Shooters Than Police

News & Current Events
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Great post and shooting, @Scott52 .

Many of us shoot for a hobby and enjoyment, so to us, practice and marksmanship are fun, not something we need to go do annually as a job requirement.

This is just one data point, but my cousin is a lifelong LEO in many different capacities (probably far more than is usual in a typical LOE career). He’s retired now. He is an absolutely gifted reader-of-people. He’s smart as heck, probably one of the smartest people I know. He can get anyone to open up. He could chat up the worst criminal into confessing all his crimes. He’s not a gunner. Shooting as a hobby is of no interest to him. If I needed someone to talk a hostage taker into surrender, or sort out a tense situation, I’d want him. When it comes time to shoot the hostage taker, I wouldn’t care if my sniper was an autistic shooting genius that couldn’t talk a kid into eating candy. Two totally different LEO roles, and the guy likely to be on scene first when a lunatic decides to shoot innocent people is the guy like my cousin, the regular cop that spends most of his time talking to people.

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Makes perfect sense to me. Anytime someone is shooting someone else in a public setting they become a target themselves. It’s a risk thst I am willing to take to stop an evil person from destroying so many lives effecting so many families.

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My youngest son as a Sherriff’s Deputy has learned that gift, and it seems he also has learned to be able to actively turn it on and off during a stop. He has told me some stories of pulling over someone and not being “NICE” initially (because they may have a known reputation in the area) then when he sees kids in the back seat of the car he changes his tune so as to not freak out the little ones.

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I bet most cops don’t practice as much as CC civilians do, most of them probably just qualify once a year because they have to

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Aren’t there some statistical studies out there showing data on LEO hits-vs-rounds fired? I seem to remember seeing some and they don’t reflect well on the average officer’s handgun proficiency; something like 2/3 hits out of 10 fired?

Full disclosure: I could be talking out of turn, here. It’s been a while since I’ve been to the range. I might not be able to hit center mass with an insult!

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We had an incident here in Salt Lake where a guy was holding another guy with a knife. The 2 cops fired 17 rounds, the guy was hit 4 times.

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This reminds me of one of my ex-wife’s co-workers son. He was at the time 35 years old, 6’1”, about 200 lbs., looked like a young Tom Selleck from Magnum P.I. and he was mentally retarded. He had the mind of a 7 year old, and he was in love with the game of Baseball. He was attached to this San Francisco Giants Baseball that he had for years. Attached like a grunt is attached to his Woobie, wherever he went the baseball went. One time when we were over at their house, he could not find his baseball, and he had a fit. He got so angry that he folded a solid oak grandfather clock like it was laundry. Burst into pieces with his bare hands, and JoAnn, said that if he can’t find that baseball he will destroy things until I find it.

Imagine if while in public John could not find his baseball, and started destroying things and JoAnn tried to intervene? He has hurt her in the past without meaning to, yet to an outsider who does not know his mental capacity; it would look like a 35 year old man attacking a 67 year old woman. Inject “Captain-Save-A-Ho” in to the mix with his CCW. Say he put Ol’e John down for good, not knowing the back story, John’s mental capacity and that JoAnn is not being attacked, she is trying to calm him down?

This is why, if, and that is a big “If”, one decides to interject, most of all with a lethal response, communicate with who you think the victim is. “Do you need help, what is going on, etc.” or simply stand by and don’t be too quick to react. Additionally, the difference between AOD (Alcohol & Other Drugs) use and mental illness is difficult to identify, even for those of us in the industry. What is worse is the dully diagnosed population, wherein they have a mental diagnosis before the age of 18 years, have the deficit as an adult and they self-medicate with a myriad of substances,… legal and illegal. Be a good witness and call the professionals (Law Enforcement, Fire & EMS), especially if there are no weapons involved (Knife / Firearm). If there are weapons,… Make a good call and be triple sure.

As far as I know, John is now a ward of the State as JoAnn, his Mom passed away over 10 years ago. I can only imagine what they have had to deal with when she passed as she was his everything. I will say however, it was funny to see him in public, As women would constantly approach him and try to talk to him. Again, he looked like Tom Selleck, and they would try to talk to him about Adult things and he would whip out his baseball cards and ask if they have any favorite players. JoAnn basically had to beat them off of him and say, “He is not interested” or “He is an APS (Adult Protective Services) report in the making.” So, while one is out an about, remember John and that everything is not as it initially appears. Be safe, Everyone!

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Welcome to the community!

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Good article. The President and Cash Patel need to get behind the CCW to help change the laws.

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It still could have potentially turned violent, thus requiring you to make a decision. Domestic violence is one of the most frequent and most subject to that unknown level of violence. Sadly! I believe this is a personal question every CCW holder must ponder and put serious thought towards. What would I do???

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Good question!!! You are going to have to tell us a little more about yourself if you want us to know what you would do. Yea it’s just one of those days. :yawning_face:

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I’ve mostly heard griping from cops that want to shoot more but their precinct doesn’t pay for more than 20-50 (1 box) rounds per month.

"The Rand study looked at NYPD firearm-discharge reports from from 1998 through 2006. Some of the findings point in Watts’ favor, while other data refutes her point.

Hit ratios were below 30 percent for gunfights (18 percent) and from long ranges (23 percent from more than seven yards away). However, in cases where suspects did not return fire, NYPD officers hit their targets 30 percent of the time. Accuracy levels were above 30 percent when the target was seven yards away or closer (37 percent)."

Most of the studies I’ve seen over the years show cops hit one in four or five shots, or 75-80% misses.

John Lott has more at his site: http://crimeresearch.org

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I’ve personally witnessed some piss poor police shooters. I imagine it’s just like this non police, some are more motivated than others to practice

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I do believe the one who “blinks” loses

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I find my position changing over the years on whether to get involved in third-party situation. Sure if it’s a bunch of kids in trouble then I’m gonna do what I have to do to help prevent them from dying. But if I were to be sitting in a restaurant when a gunman came in there, I’m very likely to leave out the exit door I chose to sit next to.

My thing is this, any one of those people sitting in that restaurant with me could’ve chosen to take the firearms/medical training I have over the years. But for one reason or another it wasn’t of importance to them. And I increasingly find it difficult to involve myself with people who don’t care about themselves enough to do what’s needed to protect themselves or their families. I realize in society there’s always going to be wolves, sheep and sheep dogs. But it just seems to me Not enough of the sheep care about the wolves.
I learned long ago not to depend on others when it comes to pulling my own fat out of the fire. Sometimes it can’t be helped, but most times learning to be your own first responder is the best thing you can do for yourself. While I know there are limits to that Idea, there is always more we can do To protect ourselves either through our defensive or medical skills.

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Yeah, my attitude when I’m out and about is that I’m not a cop, my number one priority is my wife, then me, getting home safe. If a bad guy comes in a place and we can leave without shooting, that’s choice number one. If shooting to protect my wife and me results in the protection of other innocents then great. Now, there could be all kinds of exceptions to that line of thinking as a situation develops, but rule number one for me is engage as a last resort only, and get home safe.

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I think G-d put me on this planet for a reason. That reason is to make it a better place. If I don’t engage I am not making it a better place. If he takes me out I was wrong.

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Post Of The Year Candidate right there!

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You had better hope that everything you do turns out perfectly because you will be paying for the rest of your life if it doesn’t. No good turn goes unpunished. it would be a rare thing indeed if Murphy wasn’t involved in your equation somewhere

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Thanks for looking out. It is the only way I see to go forward. If I don’t do it who will¿ like Tom Petty and the heartbreakers says I won’t back down.