There will always be some people who are “terrified” of almost anything.
If a special program occurs where teachers are trained on firearms, it could be an interesting review on the “importance of training”, especially when children are of focus.
Right? Though ask some of them what they were doing during 2020 riots, and you may be very surprized.
I would be very uncomfortable with untrained teachers watching over my son. The moment my son gets on the bus to the moment he gets back off at home the school is responsible and liable for his safety. They need to be held to a higher standard.
A teacher watching over a classroom of students is a much different scenario then someone walking around in public or defending their family at home. There are tens of thousands of accidental shootings every year in those much less chaotic environments.
No I don’t have the stats but I’m sure a significant number of accidents are by less trained individuals despite the fact that most well trained individuals probably handle their firearms a lot more often. It wouldn’t take all that many untrained teachers carrying firearms in a classrooms before the odds of students getting their hands on firearms or other firearm related accidents to exceed the insanely small chance of an active shooter event.
I’m not willing to let my kid be the guinea pig in an experiment on the differences in safety between trained and untrained firearm carriers.
Tens of thousands of accidental shootings each year? Source for that?
How is a teacher in a classroom so much different than that same person anywhere else? When kids go to summer camps and the like, where it’s legal for people to carry, in states that don’t require permits or dont’ require training…is there a problem with this I am not aware of? Chuck E cheese or the arcade? The old skate rinks? Besides school, places with both kids and the ability for adults to legally carry are a dime a dozen, and don’t seem to be any kind of problem.
Why are teachers singled out as being so inept?
We’ve bee doing the “experiment” on government mandated training to carry, and not, for millions of carriers over decades already BTW.
I’m all for offering a huge amount of free-to-teachers training if they want it, though. Don’t even require that they actually carry in school, just, you’re a teacher? Use some taxes to pay for training. Hit up the local PD and SO, and state agencies, tell them the gov is paying, the training will be there for them
Oh yes, what about non-teachers?
Should it be illegal for you to carry while on school property? While in the school?
“Nationally, half of all nonfatal firearm injuries are unintentional.2 On average, there are 526 unintentional deaths and another 43,729 unintentional injuries due to firearms each year.”
Half of those are alcohol related. Hopefully most of the teachers aren’t drinking but I remember a few from my day who I’m pretty sure were. And I’m pretty sure those are old numbers. I saw several references of accidental deaths being noticeably higher the last two years. Is that more likely due to an increase in training or the 8+ million new firearms owners?
And yes it’s from an anti gun group so I wouldn’t completely trust the numbers. But just like I never see stats on legal defensive gun use from anti gun groups, I never see stats that shine a light on accidents from pro gun groups.
I think it is actually a better idea for staff and not teachers directly involved with children to be the ones carrying. Provided they are properly vetted and trained.
A parent in a Chucky Cheese (do they not post for no firearms?) is going to be distracted by trying to keep an eye on their one to three or so kids. They aren’t responsible for keeping 20 plus kids under control.
So I can’t help but notice that they don’t seem to show where they got that 43k number, and their sources are the likes of Brady because as you noted that is definitely a pro-control source pushing an agenda…is this number able to be found in a primary source somewhere?
I’m really curious to find the source of that, and to also see how they define “unintentional injury”.
In most states, even if chuky cheese posts, it’s still legal to carry (check your local listings). And tons of the other places I listed, full of kids, legal to carry, been that way for decades across the country…where is the problem?
Is being responsible for kids what you think makes teachers less responsible and more dangerous than everybody else?
I’m just looking at the actual reality out there, as it has been for a long time, and I’m not buying this notion that teachers are so dramatically less responsible than everybody else…which is what it would have to be allowing them to carry to be so drastically different than allowing other people in other places to carry.
Do you believe it should be illegal for you to carry at schools?
There are a lot of folks here with a very low opinion of teachers. I generally respect teachers and the very hard job they have. It is not that I think they are less responsible than anyone else, it’s that I think they need to be much more responsible.
I have a hard enough time focusing and maintaining perfect situational awareness just watching after my one kid. There was another thread here somewhere on this topic. Someone posted several examples of armed school faculty leaving their firearms unattended and other mishaps. In at least one case a student found the gun on the back of a toilet and fortunately alerted other staff. Accidents will happen. Efforts have to be taken to limit them as much as possible.
Kids are super observant and if they know some teachers have guns they are likely to eventually figure out a least a few of the ones that do. Many teachers are in urban areas with many gang related issues. These mini thugs could work together to try to disarm a teacher. Manifesto sickos who can’t figure where else to get a gun and aren’t creative enough to think of other tools could also target these carrying teachers. Teachers who are not trained and vetted may not have the skills or be mentally willing to do what it takes to maintain control of their weapon.
Schools have a responsibility to protect there students. It’s not too much to ask that they require their staff be properly vetted and trained to make sure they are as up to the task as they can be.
I have no problem being told I can’t carry in a school if it means Joe Schmo dad who just walked out of the store with his first AR and pistol can’t go proudly marching through the school with them as well. If anyone can walk into the school armed how do you identify and stop the active shooters before they start killing kids? But if they are going to declare the school a gun free zone to outsiders they better have some armed insiders to defend against those who don’t stop to read the signs.
Yep,I agree if the ones that dont want to carry,then they can all line up in front of the shooter and sing KUMBUYA till death do you part
For those not current on this ( I suspect @Nathan57 is knowledgable here) it is already illegal under Federal law for anyone other than law enforcement or individually approved adults to carry on K-12 property. About 20 states already have laws allowing teachers or others who go through specific training and approval processes to voluntarily be armed in schools.
Have you seen the video of the LEO bragging in class “I’m the only person here qualified to hold this pistol in this entire place” then proceeds to shoot himself in the foot in front of the class.
That federal law allows exceptions under state law for individuals licensed by their state (if and when the state says so)
And I am asking about what people think “should” be, not what is.
"The bill allows exceptions for those licensed to carry firearms "
I’m not sure why you are asking this…do you believe it should be illegal for law enforcement to carry at schools?
Or, are you saying that no matter how much training is required, and no matter who has them, guns in schools are always dangerous?
I guess I’ll say it outright…I do not believe it should be within the role of teachers who are legally able to carry, to be handling guns in the classroom, playing show and tell. That’s, not what I’m talking about here.
The NIH study states a total of 67,000 firearm injuries and 32,000 deaths. The study was published in 2015. It does not state the number of neglient injuries and deaths, but the CDC cites for 2015 there were 489 accidental deaths due to firearms, and 36,252 total firearm-related homicides.
I suspect the number of injuries reported by the NIH is low, but I was not able to find a reputible source for that data. However, the CDC data shows of the 489 accidental deaths by firearm, under 1 year old, there was 1; 1 - 4 years old, 25; 5 - 14 years old, 22; 15 - 24 years old, 121.
How are they identifying those carrying concealed now? They don’t and cannot.
So OC is bad in schools. Police OC in schools. But I am not suggesting OC as a carry option.
Only saying sh1t happens. His arrogance earned him a hole in his foot.
I think we need more ppl armed in our schools to protect them. But the dumbass standing in front saying: I’m the only one here qualified to handle a gun in this room” got what he deserved. He lost respect for the weapon and what it can do. IMO, he was more interested in showing off than teaching how to handle a gun safely. Correct your attitude and many problems magically go away.
Edit: my dad taught ROTC in high school and had a firing range on campus. In his 25 or 30 yrs of teaching not a single person was shot or injured in any capacity.
I’m talking about concealed handgun carry here, not marching with a rifle.
How are concealed guns currently identified and stopped? [they aren’t]
How are current shooters with an openly carried rifle stopped? [they aren’t]
At your local schools, can dad just walk in and March around for whatever reason or no reason? Because here you can’t
Seems like I saw a statistic saying most shooters come thru the front door. I could be wrong on that but having a way to stop the shooter from going past that entrance point would be smart.
The local school here has multiple buildings. You are supposed to check in at the main office first but no one’s going to stop you if you don’t. Even in a school with only one door open to the public you can still march right through the door on your way to check into the office and likely right past with no one noticing in many cases. There are also lots of events at many schools that allow parents to attend.
How do you justify banning open carry by the general public at schools but not concealed carry? In an ideal world, if you declare a place a gun free zone you should be required to check everyone entering to make sure they are unarmed. And you should be required to provide well trained armed security since you are denying people their right to defend themselves. That happens in some urban schools now but is unlikely to happen in the majority of schools, public buildings and private businesses. At least until the government control crowd gets their dystopian wish of a fully controlled and monitored society.
I would be open to an enhanced CCW licensing system with required training allowing access to more sensitive areas. Make constitutional carry available to everyone but continue to restrict access to sensitive government buildings and events etc. to those who haven’t taken the extra step to vetted, trained and show proficiency.