Remembering back to when we were kids at school and there was a playground fight, maybe with you involved. You notice how few people see the first punch, but everyone sees the second punch? As someone that has been a firearms user for 50 years but a CCW permit holder for 3 or so, I have a fear of defending myself or anyone else with a firearm. The scenario that plays out in my head is this; I see someone pull a firearm on another for what appears to be bad intent or I hear a shot and decide to pull my weapon. In the commotion everyone starts looking at the disturbance and sees me with my gun drawn. One of them is a well minded fellow CCW holder. They draw and fire at me, or Iām the late comer to the party and I draw and fire at the good guy. Either way the wrong people may very well be headed to jail, the hospital, or the morgue. I tell my wife and daughter that I would rather visit them in prison that at a cemetery but I donāt know how I could live with myself if I were on the pointy end of the stick in a friendly fire incident.
I feel you brother and itās so easy to get caught in a situation like the one you described. Stay safe, stay diligent and God bless you.
Yep definitely a riskā¦which is why only you can make that decision on when to draw once youāve done the math in your head of it being worth it.
There are these neon yellow sleeveās that you can buy to put on after that might help with identifying you as a āgood guyā, but obviously itās of no good to you during.
One thing suggested in various training videos is prior to firing is giving clear commands and directions to your target not only to give the individual a chance to comply but to also provide that framing (hopefully) to everyone thatās around as an audience.
I know me as a CCW if I see someone drawing down, Iām putting my hand on mine and then going in to observe modeā¦then I would take action based on the individualās actions (are they acting like a concealed carrier or a mass shooter) .
Hoping other CCW holders are getting training to do likewise.
I think itās called āthe fog of warā! Itās the uncertainty regarding oneās own capability, adversary capability, and adversary intent during an engagement, operation, or campaign.
I have repeatedly gone over many scenarios in my head regarding this type of situation, from the Colorado movie theater to the Walmart shooting, where the good guy is shot from behind by the bad actors wife.
Like they say in the movies and on TV, sometimes you have to wait for the third homicide to make any sort of determination. But you already saw the gunman, you have an edge, you can either engage eye to eye or you can focus your attention and direct people to safety. Either way someone else is about to get hurt. Make sure itās not you or your family!
From your scenario, you can rest assured that when the shot goes off and you saw the weapon pulled, most people will be running away from the shot as you are prepared to run towards the shot. No doubt the shooter will be on the move in the same direction, so I assume you will be in low ready and prepared to shoot once the shooter realizes you are on his tail. If there is another licensed holder he/she will most probably be facing the same way, towards the sound of the first punch. Granted, there are still a billion variables. I use the OODA loop, can your actions be decided in that 2/10 of a second?
There is ONE order in my life I will never forget and that is, āif while loading nuclear weapons, the captains wife is taken hostage, shoot her and then the hostage taker, thatās an order, son, the use of deadly force is authorized!ā The greater good and all! I keep this in my head with the knowledge that someone may get in the way as soon as I pull the trigger. Unfortunately, if youāre not a member of SEAL team six, you are not trained for chaos.
In all these scenarios some innocents are going to get hurt, whether youāre protecting yourself, your country, your home, your business, your school, your family! Yes, even you, yourself may be injured. Itās why we train and constantly think of these scenarios, in the hopes of not becoming the victim.
Situational awareness is key in this scenario you mentioned here. If you didnāt see the first punch I suggest the tactic of observation and keeping your head on a swivel. If you are going to take action you better be sure you are shooting at a bad guy or donāt shoot at all.Theres a good chance of another CCW person seeing you draw down and shoot you. BE SURE OF THE ACT BEFORE YOU REACT.
Not my fight in your scenario as presented. Iām out the back doorā¦
āIs the person under attack a part of my ācircleā?ā
In your example, since there was uncertainty distinguishing between a good guy and a bad guy, neither one is part of my circle.
Skedaddle.
I dunno, if I can take cover and covertly draw Iām going to do that if itās not my fight. Running away is as equally dangerous as standing there so take cover and increase your odds. I dunno whatās going on or whoās who in the zoo. Walking into a gun fight is a good way to get dead or worse (war zone notwithstanding) If Iām with the family Iām doing the āBodyguard GET OUT walkā.
Cheers,
Craig6
You can always remember your first obligation is to escape and evade, only when your life is on the line will you defend yourself and stop a threat. A vocal expression of STOP! DROP THE GUN! May help you distinguishing you as a GOOD GUY!
What could be worse than being dead? lol 
Below are what I would say are huge considerations and good adviceā¦
Johnnyq60
If you are going to take action you better be sure you are shooting at a bad guy or donāt shoot at all.Theres a good chance of another CCW person seeing you draw down and shoot you. BE SURE OF THE ACT BEFORE YOU REACT.
āIs the person under attack a part of my ācircleā?ā
In your example, since there was uncertainty distinguishing between a good guy and a bad guy, neither one is part of my circle.
Skedaddle.
Like others have said ānot my fightā, if your life or the life of your loved ones/circle that are with are not threaten then its not your fight. Your role is to get you and your family to safe location
An election gone wrong?
Me being injured and my loved ones dead comes to mind.
This is a great question that comes up often in my classes.
You, and hopefully others have to take in the totality of the incident. Look at mannerisms, intent, verbal commands being yelled out, firearms stance and presentationā¦
Hopefully they spent a lot of time on this in your LTC course. If not, Iād really recommend taking the defensive shooting fundamentals course from a USCCA instructor. There is so so much to learn.
I wish more people thought about this.
Donāt forget to always run " if, then " scenarios in your headā¦
Jeez just a whacked thought. Donāt pull your weapon unless you are sure of what happened. You fire at the wrong individuals & no one can help you. Commands are good as stated. But be sureā¦
One thing I have started doing is wearing my Combat Medic hat alot more. My certs are back current. One thing I have been thinking about is getting a jacket made that says
āNeutral Combat Medicā or Neutral EMS on the back in high visibility letters
Does that sound like a bad idea? Iām not impersonating anything I have the certifications , training, and qualifications. But I have thought about how do I show Iām a good guy with a gun if I try to stop and provide medical assistance or join the hunt for a mass shooter until the professionals arrive. Maybe even just a highly visible Red Cross arm band.
Iāve actually been within blocks of 3 mass shootings, not counting what happened on 12/19/18. One of them I was in a surgery 3 surgical suites away from a disgruntled employee mass shooting
Brother @Zavier_D itās not a bad idea. When you say neutral does it mean you provide aid to anyone, call me dumb. As far as you being an armed good guy they will know because you open carry correct? Just be careful that while you are providing aid that no one tries to snatch your firearm.
I would help anyone (with some caveats). I carry concealed, and try very hard to grey Man except on range days because I have alot of $$ tied up on some of my guns. So I OC then for deterrence value.
It would surely make you stand out. Good/bad Iād really have to figure that out . I only worry about doing harm to the wrong person & new gunners trying to do good at the wrong place & time.