Representative notice of Red Flag Laws

Received a weekly newsletter email from my local U. S. REPRESENTATIVE about Washington’s push for Red Flag Laws.
My belief on this is it’s a easy way to disarm the people.
Bogus Complaints Can be made and you would lose your firearms and Constitutional Rights.
I stay in contact with my REPRESENTATIVES and hope everyone who is a member of USCCA does also.


We do also, especially the the ones who may try to vote it in. :us:


I don’t necessarily object to the IDEA of so-called red flag laws. What I adamantly oppose is any of the iterations of these laws and proposed laws which do not contain a strong provision for due process PRIOR to any restrictions or confiscations. “Due process” and “innocent until proven guilty” aren’t just catchphrases; they are points on the star that lights up the American Dream and what sets us apart from many, many other nations.

In my life I have encountered a few individuals who really, really shouldn’t have been allowed to handle of have access to firearms (or other obvious weapons). In these one cases the family stepped in (sometimes with outside, non-governmental assistance) and secured the situation, with good results.


I would add, STIFF repercussions for those that make false reports in respect to “Red Flag” confiscations. My X would do that with out even giving it a second thought. The pendulum needs to swing both ways.


Most states already have a process for doing what red flag laws do. They are called Mental Inquest Warrants (MIWs). Once a petition is filed, a judge determines if the grounds for the petition constitute probable cause. If PC is found, then the person is taken in to custody and is evaluated at a hospital by mental health professionals. Anyone can file for an MIW against a person but there needs to be a finding that the person is

  1. Is mentally ill;
  2. Presents a danger or threat of danger to self, family or others as a result of the mental illness;
  3. Can reasonably benefit from treatment; and
  4. For whom hospitalization is the least restrictive mode of treatment available.
    The problem with an ERPO (Extreme Risk Protection Order) or “red flag law” is the standard is significantly lower. Under the bill that stalled in Congress the court need only find:

If the court finds at the hearing ordered under subclause (I), by a preponderance of the evidence or according to a higher evidentiary standard established by the State or Indian Tribe, that the respondent poses a danger of causing harm to self or others by having access to a firearm, the court may issue an extreme risk protection order.

If you take this a step further, a vast majority of the antigun crowd believe ALL GUN OWNERS" pose a danger of causing harm to self or others by having access to a firearm." And if you possess more than one firearm that risk goes up exponentially.


This from a gun-toting therapist:

  1. Define mentally ill: As professionals, we use the DSM V as a reference for criteria to diagnose someone with a “mental illness”. Its tricky stuff in that most of us (humans) have had or still have something in the DSM V that would qualify for mental illness. Ever been extremely anxious, had panic attacks, PTSD, depression, substance abuse/use/dependence, OCD? You have met criteria #1. But its all relative. I wonder what the representatives, senators, etc talk about at the bar? #1 is too vague and is essentially a label that does not serve anyone, especially people struggling with ‘mental health challenges’.
  2. When we have to decide if someone is a danger to self or others, it is a grey zone on a good day. Sometimes it is crystal clear. Most times, we therapists have to evaluate a lot of elements before taking action. Who hasn’t said ‘I just want to die’ or ‘I could kill so and so I’m so mad…’ if we hospitalized everyone who ever had a suicidal or homicidal thought, the state couldn’t build enough hospitals quickly enough. We consider many elements including history of depression, history of attempts, family history of suicide, is there a plan, does this person truly intend to follow through? Again, sometimes really clear answer and sometimes grey. No court can decide that without professional evaluations. AND… people who know the system know what to say to get out of the mandate with continued intention to hurt themselves. We can’t predict human behavior. We can only do the best we can do to help people who want help.
  3. I don’t know anyone who can’t “reasonably benefit from treatment”. Silly rule.
  4. Yes, always go for the lowest level of care needed vs throwing everyone into psych hospitals who might benefit better from outpatient.

All that being said (if you’re still reading, thank you), there are some people who ideally shouldn’t have access to a gun. But no gun shop or federal questionnaire is going to weed out those who should not have access.


@Wanda3 >>> Very good points from a professional view point. Thanks Wanda.


Thanks Blacky!


Even those who “shouldn’t” have guns, and I agree there are those that shouldn’t, would probably be able to attain them illegally. When you give any entity the authority to allow or deny a God given right it’s possible for that entity to use that as leverage. Corruption is an old song that usually works for the “bad” guy and against the hero. I wouldn’t be as inclined to break the law to get a gun as a mentally unstable person leaving me defenseless using bow and arrow or knife in a gun fight. Generally less regulation equals less corruption equals more heroes with guns.


Thanks @Wanda3. I’m with you. The reality is that MIWs are subject to misuse but at least the criteria to get someone evaluated is at a higher level and the process requires medical testimony to involuntarily forced hospitalization. Many people sent for evaluation are released within hours.


Thanks to Mike and Wanda for some professional insights. Appreciate your sharing here.:wink:


Amen to that!

The Department of veterans affairs treats all “Mental Disorders” except eating disorders with one scale:
(I won’t bore you with the list from 9201 Schizophrenia to 9440 Chronic adjustment disorder)

A 100% rating triggers a Competency and Brady Bill proposal. A 70% rating “may” Cause a Competency and Brady Bill proposal.

The only good thing is that the vet gets 90 days to rebut the proposal!

General Rating Formula for Mental Disorders

Total occupational and social impairment, due to such symptoms as: gross impairment in thought processes or communication; persistent delusions or hallucinations; grossly inappropriate behavior; persistent danger of hurting self or others; intermittent inability to perform activities of daily living (including maintenance of minimal personal hygiene); disorientation to time or place; memory loss for names of close relatives, own occupation, or own name. 100
Occupational and social impairment, with deficiencies in most areas, such as work, school, family relations, judgment, thinking, or mood, due to such symptoms as: suicidal ideation; obsessional rituals which interfere with routine activities; speech intermittently illogical, obscure, or irrelevant; near-continuous panic or depression affecting the ability to function independently, appropriately and effectively; impaired impulse control (such as unprovoked irritability with periods of violence); spatial disorientation; neglect of personal appearance and hygiene; difficulty in adapting to stressful circumstances (including work or a worklike setting); inability to establish and maintain effective relationships. 70
Occupational and social impairment with reduced reliability and productivity due to such symptoms as: flattened affect; circumstantial, circumlocutory, or stereotyped speech; panic attacks more than once a week; difficulty in understanding complex commands; impairment of short- and long-term memory (e.g., retention of only highly learned material, forgetting to complete tasks); impaired judgment; impaired abstract thinking; disturbances of motivation and mood; difficulty in establishing and maintaining effective work and social relationships. 50
Occupational and social impairment with occasional decrease in work efficiency and intermittent periods of inability to perform occupational tasks (although generally functioning satisfactorily, with routine behavior, self-care, and conversation normal), due to such symptoms as: depressed mood, anxiety, suspiciousness, panic attacks (weekly or less often), chronic sleep impairment, mild memory loss (such as forgetting names, directions, recent events). 30
Occupational and social impairment due to mild or transient symptoms which decrease work efficiency and ability to perform occupational tasks only during periods of significant stress, or symptoms controlled by continuous medication. 10
A mental condition has been formally diagnosed, but symptoms are not severe enough either to interfere with occupational and social functioning or to require continuous medication. 0

I didn’t see anything in there about criminal intent. Do MIW’s apply to the guy that says “I’m going to the corner store to get a 12 pack, no money but I have my glock…”. Really that’s the person I’m probably the most concerned with.


I think that is covered!

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MIWs have nothing to do with criminal law. They are typically handled in mental health courts which also relaxes the standard of proof to something less than beyond a reasonable doubt. But, since it is a mental health issue, it requires testimony from a mental health expert. Unlike red flags that let mom or the ex girlfriend testify to what was (allegedly) said by and the mental state of the respondent.


In most cases its your mouth or actions that get you in trouble. Don’t posture up, keep mouth closed and walk away. Also make sure you don’t have all your eggs in 1 basket. I’m pretty sure most liberals would find me crazy.

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I’m hopeful that gun owners also note the deliberate weakening of criminal law, especially since 1993. Criminal law is a sick joke. I live only 45 minutes from the New Mexico border…a democrat “governor” who had no problem with the NM southern border being an open door to illegals, known M13 gangs, sex traffickers, drug rings, ultra violent thugs… and now any foreign national who strolls across their border. Albuquerque is usually in the “top” 5 cities with the highest violent crime rates. Over and over criminals get "bonded"out or are released “until court dates”…lo and behold, oddly enough they don’t show for court…right!!! A police officer was assaulted by a “large” woman, she was jailed over night and NEVER CHARGED! She walked out the door the next morning.
At one time they were second only to Alaska in violent crimes…
Bottom line: the weakening of the “justice” system is by design…hoping the average uninformed citizen won’t put two and two together and understand that our justice system is little more than lip service. “Gun laws” target ONLY law abiding citizens who’ve gone through the whole song and dance show to get a conceal carry permit: congrats, you are now on the ATF’s watch list…meanwhile violent criminals lead “charmed” lives…don’t forget this last year’s insanity…and not ONE charge brought against these thugs.
William is 100% on the money on contacting reps…but know that the party who’s most interested in disarming you are the democrats… and more disgusting, the rinos. I’ve encouraged folks before to look up the Genocide Chart … surprisingly it’s still online. Published in 1995 by Jews For the Preservation of Firearms Ownership. As George Washington stated concerning the right to keep and bear arms: “To be prepared for war, is the most effectual means of preserving peace.”
Whether or not we want to believe it, or flat deny it, the left has declared war on our Second Amendment first, and the rest of our Constitution running a close second. Either they must be stopped or welcome to the United States of Amerika.

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My X did that to me 1996 during a custody battle where I had temporary custody. so then as a single parent raising my both my kids at the time I had to hire an attorney to protect my rights. attorney got her to break down on the stand and admit it was all fabricated and nothing done to her for discipline it was pretty sad but I did win in the end at Great cost to the funds that should have went to my kids