OK… Let’s agree on one thing - everybody uses what is working best for him / her.
Perhaps I’m the only one person using red dot on my EDC handgun… but still I will stand by my opinion.
Having optics brings more advantages than single bulkiness problem (which is actually hard to name as a problem).
The moment I decided to carry a handgun on me, I compromised part of my comfort. My EDC is 7.5" x 5.5". Adding RMR and making it 7.5" x 6.5" changed nothing.
We can cross out the “what if” from my post… so…
“if someone is shooting at me from 40 yards, I’m using any technology available to accurately shoot back”
… and that is a reality.
More reality (beside Wild Bill Hickok… BTW, I never met the guy).
These are 2 cases of handgun long distance shootings I’m familiar with:
July 29 2012, Early, TX
Vic Stacy took 4 defensive shots from 50 yards
July 17th, 2022, Greenwood, IN
Elisjsha Dicken took 10 defensive shots from 40 yards
There are more, but rifle was involved, so those won’t be accurate.
Anyway… I’d like to ask you @Mark712 this: do you have red dot installed on any of your firearms? Or have you ever tried to shoot with red dot?
Yes I do have one on a 9mm carbine and have two still in the box, one is a TC and, oh hell I’ve got a red/green one on my AR with a magnifier behind it and they are matching Vortexes. And you’ve never met Hickok? ( Sorry I didn’t think a little humor would go over so hard, me thinks some of you need to lighten up) but anyhow you named two instances so compared to the uncountable other times what does that tell most people? Oh I get “ But it could happen and if it does I’ll be ready by God!” Why don’t we shut this one off , you like em on your EDC and I have a real hard time anymore concealing anything more than a P3AT especially in the summer.
Great you have an optics on rifles / carbines… but we had been focusing on handguns - those were questioned by you for last 3 days.
I see that you carry P-3AT, and have an issue concealing anything bigger, so you have your reasons to avoid red dots.
But why discussing red dots on carry guns… if you do not use red dot on carry gun?
It’s like telling a Luxembourger how to speak German.
I really like this discussion and don’t want to shut this off. It is not about you and me, but about reasons why millions of people use red dot and how it can help them or becomes an issue (including Court).
Sorry but I could have sworn that it headlined something like “ red dot sights in a carry gun? What’s your thoughts” aThat is in no way verbatim but I thot it was something like that not for RD sight users only but I could be mistaken. And I have probably over 30 telescopic sights of all kinds after being a “ gun guy” my whole life even way before adulthood and come to think of it I had one on a Ruger MK whatever but it was the one that supposedly had a 1911 style grip and I think it was called the .22/45 and it was the biggest POS I ever owned. But My cave is pretty much a gun shop and there isn’t much I don’t have or haven’t had so I’m far from a beginner and my son is a gun smith.
If you are in court for a self-defense shooting a red dot on your pistole will be the least of your worries.
And, yes, we have many firearms experts in our community.
I don’t know who said anyone would be in court for a red dot sight on their gun but it wasn’t me, I said a thing or two about some aggressive anti- second amendment prosecutors that wants to make a name for himself and if you’ve ever seen one on his soap box you would know what I was talking about, they start talking about school “things” that happen and who knows what and if the judge is like that to and he doesn’t tell him to STFU and stick to the matter at hand it could go bad for someone. I just don’t personally see it to be nessasary for a whip-out if you have to and it’s all normally over in a few seconds and I’ve tried it as I’m not “ ignant “ to the whole thing and I’d rather get a couple off by just point and shoot but I guess not everyone can do that, I prolly or more than likely wouldn’t use my sights at all. Im outside under my car port and phones goin crazy, I haven’t been able to see what I’m typing for the last five minutes and I hope it’s legable
I’m back in now had to feed birds, squirrels and scoop up a little dog poop lol! Yea TMI I know, But to clarify something I carry a bunch of diff guns , sometimes I I even slide in my pocket a little Colt .25 vest pocket, man that gun looks like it’s new almost, it’s prolly a 98% gun. I don’t think that’s the correct name for it tho because it’s got the exposed hammer but I forget, it’s not the Mustang and the dam things worth about $ 800. I’m not much on a .25 for protection but I can make it suffice as any gun, I haven’t seen it for a little while and I think It’s at my sons getting a good detailing cause I’m not taking that little thing apart anymore[quote=“deranged, post:1, topic:107267, full:true”]
Since red dots have become the new hotness in sighting systems, I am curious how the use of a firearm equipped with one might be viewed in the eyes of the court when such a weapon is implemented in self defense.
This thing keeps saying “quote#1 and all kinds of crazy stuff is the web guys tired of me talking or something? I’m no electronics wizz I didn’t grow up with this stuff. Well I guess I’m getting off here crap
Opinions?
[/quote]
Based on numerous comments re RDS on a couple of gun forums, I suggest that anyone who tries an RDS handgun without the basic RDS-Beginner brief (below) will come away unimpressed, a little frustrated, declaring the (expensive) add-on device either did not improve, or maybe even degraded their shooting.
Basic RDS-Beginner brief:
With RDS, front sight focus still applies, but means your target is the front sight and the dot is the rear sight. Focus accordingly.
If you can see the iron sights when using the dot, do not try to align them with the dot. Just follow #1, above.
If the dot is anywhere in the window and on the target, you are accurately aimed; the dot does not have to be centered in the window.
If you are having trouble finding the dot, that means your presentation needs work, work that will improve your shooting with either iron sights or RDS.
THANK YOU!!! Amazing how many folks will put down something they have never truly understood, trained with it sometimes used at all…
That’s why I LOVE working with brand new shooters. When they are serious enough to get training and they get presented with a bunch of available SD carry options and ZERO preconceived prejudices to screw they up, they will actually pick the best alternative for themselves swiftly using nothing but actual hands on, logic and facts.
And amazingly enough a slim frame Glock (43X or 48) MOS with a RDS seems to win out of a tall stack of options just about 100% of the time.
I’m not pushing back. And I don’t have any red dots on any firearms. I simply want to kindly make one point. And that is most of us will (thankfully) never be involved in a self defense shooting. I get the point you are making. It’s not invalid. But if we are going by the statistical likelihood of something happen, we don’t need to carry at all. But here we are.
Perfect tho it’s to put this thing to bed , the deal is no one is gonna change anyone’s mind and basically if you do it fine and if you don’t fine, A lot of it isn’t even opinion’s like how I have cirosis of the liver and it makes so much fluid in me I take 200 mags of diuretics a day and still can’t get it under control to the point if I get cut more water runs out of me than blood and I can’t even wear a holster anymore so it’s gotta be something as small as possible like a small .380 or even a 32 because of the stupid gym type shorts I gotta wear. So I just need to leave this one alone because I’ve said enuf already. But I love talking about guns so we can certainly do that. Later boys and gals
So now everything is clearly explained.
What we can tell by experience - carrying is never gonna be comfortable, but depending on body type, health and environment each of us will go with different setup.
Referring back to the topic… having red dot or not… it won’t change anything in the Court. But, it may change if you visit the court, as gunfight winner, or you won’t be there because you are dead…
It could very well change what happens in a court , maybe not in West Virginia but here is different than San Fran Sicko. And my son says “ carrying is supposed to be comforting not comfortable “ But there’s no guarantees in a courtroom either.
Of course it’s better accuracy that’s what they are all about, the projectile supposedly hitting where the red or green dot is hitting assuming it’s so calibrated but all I was ever talking about on this subject it normal dangerous ranges where I wouldn’t even use the sights at all I figure, and before some Poindexter says something like “ there’s never anything normal in a gun fight boooy” yes I know this as well. But if I had to shoot a handgun at ranges out to 40 yds or better I would like a red/green dot or laser or something to and I’ve got prolly 4 or 5 of those to . Anyone will do what’s best for them but if I am unlucky enough to get into a situation that’s 25 feet or less I’m not going to be looking thru any thing trying to line up a dot superimposed on a piece of glass. And I don’t like the superimposed dot either man the one on my .22/45 I put one on was like that and I tossed it on the ground and my son shot it lol. Well this page is in some posituation where it’s below the letter board and I don’t even know if my words are in there anymore. So guess I’m buggin out.
Yes, the improved ease of accuracy is the intent of a red dot. And yes, a good lawyer can argue that point as can a good prosecutor argue that such an “enhancement” shows “nefarious” intent.
I am only speaking in the eyes of the court. A judge and jury and how a red dot might influence opinion.
I guess it would be interesting to know how many self defense cases regarding red dot equipped weapons, mainly handguns, have made it through the courts and whether there is a trend regarding such.
But here we are. 
