[quote=“USCCA, post:1, topic:46073”]
What distance do you recommend newer shooters set their targets at for self-defense training with a handgun?
I said 10 feet
What distance should an experienced shooter set their targets at for self-defense training with a handgun? I say 21 to 25 feet with a 6 inch target.
I have found 10 feet to be a good starting point but only for a short time, maybe 10 or 15 rounds. I believe that when just beginning to train someone in any new discipline, it is important for them to see that it can be done and that they can do it. Then we move out to 21 feet and get serious.
I also agree with @Craig6 about large targets with a smallish aiming point. I use a 23" x 3 5" sheet with a 6" aiming circle in order to see the pattern of " wild" shots and make corrections. I have found some newbies to be distracted by a human shaped silhouette, so I prefer the solid circle when starting out.
My $.02 worth.
I prefer 15 paces (15 yards) or more but then again I primarily shoot steel as it helps to cut down on woodline damage.
I don’t normally wear gloves but it was like 35* that day and raining. This was 15 rounds at 15 paces @ about 1 per second the very first rounds out of the pistol.
I guess we get the thumbnail version this time, Open in New Tab to get the full size pic.
Cheers,
Craig6
What size is your steel targets? I have a group that competes at 30 feet with 6 - 8 inch targets. It is a duel match and they who knocks down their six targets first moves on. Losers compete against losers and everybody gets to shoot. We have some exciting matches and a good time.
I believe that one was a 12" x 16" plate. Plate racks are fun as are dueling trees to sharpen the edge with competition. Back in the day with the company I kept we would often run out of magazines before we got to a winner on a dueling tree. I ain’t as good as I once was (but I hope if it ever comes down to it) I’m as good once as I ever was.
Cheers,
Craig6
I must be a real antique. If I’m teaching a new shooter I start at 12-15 yards. 1"- 2" circle as a target point. I believe in learning basic marksmanship first. Ins & outs of the weapon… Safety!!!
Then increase to 25 yards learn accuracy first. Then back to 12yards silhouette or outline type targets I believe in learning center of mass. Aim small hit small but see the whole target. It has worked for me. Learning to shoot accurately needs to be forced a bit. One needs to build that muscle memory for accuracy at longer distances so at 7-10 ft there will be no doubt. Just an old shooters opinion.
I start at 3yards (10ft was closest answer) with a new shooter. If they can handle it, push the target back. If they can’t move it a little closer. Not hitting a target isn’t fun and the primary thing you want them to leave with is it was fun so they come back next time.
Almost everyone can hit better than they think they could on day 1.
If I’m practicing draw from concealment I will start at 5yards. Otherwise if I’m just plinking I’ll start at 7yards. In all cases I will eventually get out to 25yards and if I’m really in a groove out to 50yards
10 feet - large target, high berm or inside.
For someone that’s never shot before I like to start with sight picture practice, from a rest, using a two hand grip resting on a sand bag or other rest, with a .22 LR pistol. Understanding what things are supposed to look like from the start seems a critical step to unsupported shooting and then to point shooting. With the .22 the basics can be trained without any difficulty emerging from flinch and discomfort. Plus it’s cheap.
Additionally, using clay targets or balloons is also a lot of fun and a good shift away from paper. Steel safely mounted doesn’t get used up, and the dynamic “clang” is always fun. Moving up to the higher power pistols and hollow points, gallon jugs of water are a great motivator - as well as a beginning demo of the energy and effect of the bullets fired.
A laser bore sighter, or gun mounted constant-on laser can be very instructive to dramatically show the deflection due to the way in which the trigger is squeezed. (However, for fam and later firing training, until the student has a good grasp of the fundamentals, I prefer to have that laser off. Using the laser for shooting comes after… ).
I’ve also used a switch down to .22 from say, a .357 magnum to work through a shooter’s flinch. In the case of the .357 we moved .22 to .38 and finally back to .357. I’ve also used an “implosion therapy” in which I’ve gone up in recoil before coming back down again. In one case I moved the .357 shooter to a .44 Remington Magnum, took a break, and then picked up with the .357 again - a new world!
Once basic skills at the level of initial familiarization are loosely in place, it’s usually been relatively easy to move to a higher powered pistol.
One thing I do with my first time shooters, or when a shooter is brand new to the gun being trained and doesn’t have a lot of shooting experience, is to only load one round at a time until it’s clear they’re comfortable and controlled. It also greatly eases my task of safely keeping the shooter from turning around with the “Hey! I just hit the target!” grin and sweeping the room.
The single round loaded really makes sense when newer shooters are doing familiarization with the really high powered pistols (or when a new shooter with a small frame and possibly limited hand and arm strength steps up to a even a 9mm).
I think most of us who’ve been shooting a while have seen the videos or heard the horror stories of those who just don’t have a grip or familiarity and kill themselves. It’s not many, but lives have been lost when an inexperienced shooter kills themselves with the second completely unintended discharge when the pistol has recoiled to bring the muzzle to facing the shooter’s head.
In spite of the one round, in all new shooter situations, I am right behind the shooter, and I stay there when moving into magazine (or full cylinder) firing - able to easily physically contain the movement without having to do more than place a hand on the arm as it begins to sweep around.
I’ve had to do that more times than would seem reasonable - especially after walking the shooter through dry fire drills on what’s going to happen and coaching the newbie on “You don’t turn around!” along with the big three of safe handling.
(I like the NRA big three because they are all positive statements beginning with “Always” as in “Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction” - I spend a bit of time assisting the new shooter in parsing through what “a safe direction” means in various contexts. Each of the big three have those additional points to begin thinking through how they function in safe handling.)
This safety monologue just keeps on going… Last thought. (It’s the COVID isolation talking, for sure): For new shooters who want to start as a family, I have found that very often, even the dads and/or moms have no shooting experience - at all. This first emerged when I was training gun safety at my church’s summer camp and their sons started shooting for the first time, really loved it, and the dad’s wanted to go ahead and start shooting together - but had no experience themselves. This is a huge problem. The solution I recommended to all of them (and continue to do so today) is that if they want to take up shooting, they need to go through at least one hunter safety course together. A lot is taught that is essential, particularly moving with firearms. Then, that they work very hard to find an experienced shooter they know to take along for the first lot of trips to the range.
I love doing six - six inch targets at 25 feet and seeing how fast I draw and acquire each target. Cold shooting, because in self defense you will not be warming up to take your shots.
Well, sir, it must be of some importance. One of the dangers of having to carry concealed is the requirement to move an article of clothing in order to grip your weapon. That stands as one reason it is important to recognize the wording of the second amendment: “shall not be infringed.”
I took an “advanced concealed-carry course” taught by a person with years of experience as a bodyguard. The first thing that has to happen in the situation you describe is to cause a couple seconds of delay in the attackers approach. That is needed in order to move your own clothing and reach your weapon whiles moving away from the attacker.
It truly is a need in order to defend yourself when the attack is “up close and personal.” Are you really going to survive? Maybe not, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to be prepared. I think this increases the need to have situational awareness.
Yep, and it is not easy to avoid the brief pause when we find ourselves with the deer-in-the-headlights pose. Most Americans have never actually been attacked.
I don’t disagree with anything you said in this reply to me. The quick draw from concealment vs threat at 10’ or less response is definitely ONE which needs to be mastered for anyone interested in the discipline of defensive pistol. But most experienced pistol instructors will tell you that…barring any major time/resource limitations…they want to build a solid foundation of several things before they go to practical shooting drills. And the question in the OP was about a brand new shooter with a GOAL of defensive pistol. Speaking from almost 4 decades of experience, it is a lot easier and a little safer to coach a novice in their first live fire training session at a sufficient distance to target that errors create obvious POA to POI differences. I see it easier. They see it better. Corrections come quicker and with less stress and confusion for the student. I admit I’ve never been a bodyguard. But it sounds like that fella knew a bit about what he taught you.
The range we train newbies on is 5 yards. I don’t think I"ve ever seen anyone fail to get shots on paper at that distance.
We use either 8 inch round targets or AP2 (tombstone) targets on 8 1/2 x 11.
Most importantly, I"m never watching the target for the initial shots. I am focused on ensuring the shooter is following the safety rules and handling the firearm safely; working on stance, grip, sight picture, breathing, trigger control, etc.
I just realized I wrote “7 feet” the other day when I meant “3 yards.” No, I don’t know where my head was at…
Well I started at 15 feet as a new shooter/self trained only so far. Did not want to start to close and build a false confidence and also thought of distance if encountered with a break in. Was using a profile target and even missed the target a few times. Went back over my reading for stance and grip. I now go 15 to 45 for practice and improvement.
I said more than 12 ft. Yards options would have been better. 5 yards would be good start I think, esp since 5 by 5 drill is a good thing / assessment of skills
You are in a typical room. the average ingress/egress may be 10 - 12 feet from you. Spot on immediately.
Build up a new shooters confidence with a close target. As they improve,
the target gets further.
I am a new shooter and even the basic firearms courses I have taken have been at 12-15 feet. My personal training at home with laser setup is at 12 feet. Not saying it’s right or wrong, just stating how I have been taught and trained.
Well, since we are talking about a new shooter, I start them at 5 yards for fundamentals and marksmanship. When they feel comfortable and confident with the weapon we go from arms length to them measuring out the farthest distance in their home. Normally that’s 20 to 30 feet.
