+P Ammo

Can’t remember where I heard/read it…if you think you need +P, just get the next large caliber. Not sure of my terminology but the thought was +P may be a little tougher on the firearm so just go bigger.

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I agree about expansion. Make sure that whatever you carry has been shown to reliably expand through various targets when used in a firearm with a similar barrel length to the one you carry. Though I do put equal weight on adequate penetration since there is a high chance of the bullet running into bones or also having to go through arms and multiple bones on the way to the target. In these cases mass and the ability of the bullet to hold together and not deflect are all equally important to velocity.

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Like shoe sizes @Chas :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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Expanding bullets (hollow-points) are designed to PROPERLY open within a certain velocity range. Ammuntion manufacterers rarely will change the construction dynamic/specifications of the bullet used in a standard pressure cartridge when it is also used in a +P cartridge. The result is the higher velocity causes the bullet to open/expand sooner when it strikes. A broader frontal area = greater resistance which therefor = less penetration. I know this may seem like a generalization to some but this has been born out through testing. If they reformulated the bullet (which costs $$$$) this would not occur but my experience is that is rarely done.

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I personally believe the “+P” was created as a warning to shooters of putting “+P”,s in older.38 spl’s or 38’s of a questionable origin, can result in dangerous velocity and pressure causing harm to the shooter and/or the firearm. Some earlier arms, such as the Colt or the Smith and Wesson can handle the extra pressure, but not all pistols labeled as “38 Special” can.

GlennVA

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Even in the most modern of its handguns, Sig doesn’t recommend use of +P on a regular basis. From the Sig Sauer website:

+P ammunition manufactured to SAAMI/NATO specifications is fine to use as a defensive round or for occasional range use, in ANY of our firearms. Continual use of this round will make it necessary for more frequent service on the pistol.

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This. Manufacturers make the bullet to operate within a certain range of velocities, and that range is pretty generous.

If the bullet goes too far outside this range it may not function properly or the way you expect. You can go outside the range by going too fast (+P, +P+, or a long barrel like a PCC) or by going really slowly (really short barrel like a CCW pistol, or extremely long distance). If you go outside this range you may not expand enough (or at all!) or you may get too much or too little penetration.

I would hazard a guess that most modern, well designed, hollow-points such as Federal HST, Speer Gold Dots (not the G2), Hornady Critical Duty/Defense in your common defensive weights like 124gr, 135gr, 147gr will function just fine regarding expansion and penetration out of any reasonably sized pistol with a barrel between 3.5-5" in normal or +P velocities.

Measured velocity differences across different sized barrels (credit to LuckyGunner). You can see you do gain “some” velocity in using +P across every weight and barrel length. How much you gain varies weight to weight and brand to brand.

Increased velocity means a flatter shooting round, more energy at the muzzle and therefore more energy retained at farther distances.

That increased velocity/energy may or may not mean better performance when hitting a target. In pistols, personally I don’t think it matters because the difference in velocities isn’t great enough. But in PCCs the velocity difference is great enough to where you might easily go outside the working range for the projectile. LuckyGunner’s video at the link above helps explain better than I can.

So should you use +P? I’ve tried shooting standard and +P back to back and for me the +P had noticeably more recoil which made me slower to get back on target after each shot. That trade of a few extra ft/lbs of energy wasn’t worth it… for me. However, if you are one of those folks that doesn’t notice the increased recoil, or you’re OK making the trade for a little extra energy, distance, flatter shooting… then by all means go for it.

I will make a slight note that not all firearms are rated for +P and some of those that are aren’t rated for a lot of it. So check your owners manual. Glocks, M&Ps and similar “duty” pistols (commonly used by LEO) are likely just fine, but double-check just to be sure.

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I’ve got nothing against it, however my EDC isn’t rated to use it. That being said, I focus on practicing rounds-on-target and use standard Hornaday Critical Defense rounds. I’m not convinced the additional velocity of a +P round makes a huge difference in self-defense use.

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Sounds like you’re saying that the +P is like the muffin top of catridge loadings. :rofl:

For the record, I sometimes carry and practice with +P.

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My old friend, the late Dan Johnson, a great writer during the golden years of Guns’s and Ammo magazine, after a lot of actual research wrote a great article on +P ammo and he said, lawyers aside, any gun of modern design is more than capable of safely handling occasional use of +P ammo. He said at WORST a long and steady diet of +P would cause faster wear of a firearm but that it would never cause any kind of catastrophic damage to a gun. It’s just NOT that much hotter than regular ammo. No ammo manufacturer would ever take on that kind of liability.

Years later I asked the same question of Jerry Lee, the late editor of the yearly edition of Guns Digest. He agreed with Dan. These two men forgot more about guns than all the knowledge I’ll ever posses on the subject.

I don’t carry my stainless S&W Model 60 much since it’s an older “no dash” model in perfect condition but when I do it’s loaded with +P. I also shoot a relatively steady amount of +P ammo when practicing with it and have done so for years. The gun is as tight as the day it left the factory. But if you ask S&W they’ll tell you older J frames are NOT rated for +P.

I stopped listening to their advice when they started putting a stupid key hole on their guns…

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I love Liberty CD. VERY light to carry - but really does a number on ballistics gel videos I’ve seen. and my own backyard targets I’ve shot.

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I’ve heard people describe it as very loud and startling, but that hasn’t been my experience. Even at 2000 fps, the recoil isn’t bad at all with that 50gr weight.

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:handshake:

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IMO our Firearm & Sport Shooting version of “from the horse’s mouth”

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Enjoyed researching more into this, due bc you chose to share. thanks

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Pretty much all factory ammo for 38 Superb is +P. :wink: I don’t reload powder puffs, but my reloads are a little bit lighter. Carry ammo for that gun is +P. Have not seen any JHP in that caliber that was not +P, but have not really been looking for it.

I have a old Rossi .38 Special that is not rated for +P. Manufacturer told me NOT to shoot any +P in it. Never have. Of course, that is not a carry gun.

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I prefer +P ammo in 9MM in my short barreled pistol. The short barrel robs the bullet of speed and the +P helps regain that velocity. Higher energy in a bullet never hurts, That’s why we use 9MM and not .380. Even in a 4 inch barrel, the increased energy imparts greater damage to the aggressor so maybe one shot will stop the attack instead of 2. Up to the possibility of over-penetration, I find it hard to believe that less energy is better.

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Glad you didn’t say condoms.

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