Well it sounds right when you think it, but the brain goes tilt when I read it.
Good point to clarify! Maybe they could flag a person who is hospitalized or recently hospitalized for further background checking?
They have an ethical and legal responsibility to notify LEO"s if the patient presents a danger to themselves and/or others.
As far as I know that’s all they can do and most refuse to in order to keep from driving away those who seek help.
It’s a tough situation and probably worthy of it’s own thread for deep discussion.
@Dawn you could combine that with a Red Flag Law since they directly correlate to one another.
My position is that we need some real clarification in law to alleviate any questions of ethical/legal problems with reporting but that we absolutely must allow for due process prior to any declarations or seizures.
I’m going to leave it here, since it’s a part of the background check. I’ll also start a new thread about mental illness and firearms, @Wildrose as I think that will combine a lot of different factors.
Great, wasn’t suggesting a move, just another thread on that line as no doubt it’s going to be a big issue in the upcoming election season and something that could have horrible consequences for law biding gun owners if passed without the precursor of due process before any arrest, disqualification, or seizure.
I think they have a place but at the same time, if someone wants to get a gun, they will get a gun no matter what the laws say. A mall cop will deter crime but wont stop someone from stealing a purse if they really want to steal it. Its simply a road block. I am not saying I have done this, but driving my car over the speed limit of lets say 120 MPH on a freeway is a felony is some states but I would have to be caught in order for that be a problem for me( once again not saying I have done this). So by doing a background check on someone is going to rule out those who got caught vs those who have not. There is also no way of saying what someone will do with a gun or any weapon or object for that matter. More people are murdered by knives in the US then by AR platformed rifles, yet I need a background check to buy an AR but I can go to Bed Bath and Beyond and buy a 9inch chefs knife with no questions asked. Bottom line is someone who would fail a background check can and still will get a gun or any weapon for that matter if they really want one. Criminals work outside the law… hence being a criminal.
I certainly wish I had a good answer to the question. There are so many illegal ways to obtain a firearm on the streets of our nation. Keeping guns SECURELY locked up at home, especially in high crime cities, is a small step that is easy to take. My every day carry gun is in one specific place in the house, and most often sitting on my hip. Everything else is in a gun safe bolted to a concrete floor. But making it harder for law abiding folks can obtain firearms is not the answer. If Congress was to pass mandatory jail time for being arrested for illegally possessing a gun, that might help in a few cases. No easy answers or solutions for the issue. Living in Nevada, as opposed to a state unfriendly to guns protects my rights pretty well.
Good point. Professional criminals work on a risk/reward continuum like other people in business.
Unless we’re willing to make the cost of stealing or otherwise illegally possessing a stolen firearm high enough to make them reconsider we’re not going to accomplish much.
Punishing the law abiding or making it ever harder for them to remain law abiding isn’t a solution, it’s persecution of the innocent.
69 years old here. Born and raised on Chicago’s South Side. (10101 Vernon Ave.) back when Rosemoor was the place in the 1950’s and early 60’s until I was drafted into Vietnam then spent the next 18 years in the US Army. Anyway original South Side here.
In principle I agree that the background check system as currently constituted and applied is an act of prior restraint on our rights as well as being largely ineffective in its primary stated goal of keeping firearms out of the hands of dangerous people. That being said, there is an aspect of the background check regimen which I don’t believe has been considered. (It’s quite possible that I’m the only one silly enough to think of it.)
Allow me to begin with an apparent digression. Back when I was a lad, half a century ago, I had three grades of clothing: play clothes, school clothes, and church clothes.This was quite common in our region, across all socio-economic strata. My mother once explained why we did this, probably after I got a little too playful in my school clothes
She explained that we didn’t have these “dress codes” for the sake of our appearance, though that was certainly a nice side benefit. The real purpose was to prepare us on the inside, to establish a mind-set for the activity we were dressing for. It helped us to realize that what we were about to do was special and had a serious purpose. It was not to be taken lightly. This is also why many jobs have uniforms as part of their work requirements. It’s not the only reason, but it is A reason.
It could be that both the FFL staff and the customers treat the buying and selling of firearms as something more than an ordinary, mundane transaction. It may help to establish a mind-set specific to the activity and, by extension, cause us to give it a bit more thought.
Now, I like guns for their own sake, and I carry one every day, but I try to never lose sight of the fact that they are powerful, deadly serious tools. Buying a firearm, taking responsibility for a firearm, is not the same as buying a tool set, or a toaster, or a vacuum cleaner. All useful tools, but rarely used to the same devastating effect as a gun.
Again, I like guns. I have fun with them on a regular basis. I like to talk about them, brag about them, and complain about them. Even so, I can see some value to a ritual which can set the buying process apart from the everyday. Not sure if that’s a good enough reason for requiring a check at every purchase, or at all, but it’s something.
Hope this makes some sort of sense.
For the background check system to be effective we’d have to fully enforce the law meaning arrest and prosecute all of those attempting to purchase a firearm unlawfully who fail the background check.
It would also have to be fully integrated so that those who are ineligible are identified and reported to the FBI and entered into the database in a timely fashion.
They really do that @Robert8? I’m just thinking maybe this is why it takes so long for my background check to go through most times… because the system is too busy checking everyone from Illinois every day.
He means the FOID system checks for valid FOID cards 360 days a year. No FOID, no guns in Illinois.
Let me check something Zee @Zee and I will get right back to you
Last month June 2019 there were 2,309,312 NICS New gun purchasers but the normal everyday background check for us Schleps in this state are strictly a maintenance type background check through the Illinois State Police for Daily maintenance unless you’re buying a new gun. But there’s a timeline for new gun purchases I think it’s 3 or 4 days they have to come back with the results. You should call the gun shop to discover what the hold up is Zee
Yes they really do do that everyday. As you know Illinois is a highly political state. The guy who Pee’s the farthest is Speaker Mike Madigan and he tells politicians what they are going to do. Speaker Madigan ruined the last Governor Bruce Rauner straight out. Stopped him on all counts. Democrats have ruled the state overall for probably the last 150 years. When I was growing up in Chicago in the 1950s you voted Democrat or you would not vote. The precinct captains would destroy your life if you were not Democrat
it’s interesting - one of the 4 checks this year went through in about 10 minutes. the other 3 took 5-7 days. The shop I usually go through says they have been told “we are not allowed to give you any information about delay times” when they’ve asked. The other folks I bought through thought it might because I have what amounts to 3 first names
I thought the limit was “back in 3 days or you get a pass” but I actually haven’t checked… since I travel, it either passes while I’m at the shop or I have to wait until the next time I’m home in 2-3 weeks, and its always back by then. I can get a unique ID to solve this, but I haven’t looked into doing that yet.
I have to think they’re lying to you Zee. I don’t trust that reason or simply get a refund and go somewhere else where they are not going to mess with you
I am really not into guns like when I was younger. To me now it’s stuff. I have a couple guns. Years ago I had a lot of guns. It’s just now a mechanism for self defense for my wife and I. After shooting everything I have shot in the Army it’s just not interesting anymore. So I live a quiet life and am very happy nowadays.