No magic bullet as Athens PD find out

This is scary, Athens PD officers confront a knife wielding assailant. Police show remarkable restraint and beg the man to stop. Eventually he charges one of the officers which give the officer no choice but to shoot. The man gets up after being shot and charges the officer and does get to him. In the debate over which caliber is better, this shows us there is no magic bullet, bringing down a determined assailant depends on the physiology, mindset, and whether that person is on drugs or alcohol. This video reminds me why I have a pump 12 gauge shotgun as my primary and a pistol as backup. If your pistol is your primary, train yourself to put rapid accurate fire into your assailant. https://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/484316006-Video-LEO-fatally-shoots-knife-wielding-man-attacking-cop/

1 Like

I saw that on ASP on youtube. The cops could not have done more to avoid shooting him.

You can also tell that the officer’s first shots apparently all hit in the torso and reasonably should have stopped him.

This is why I’m not a fan of the 9mm even with good SD ammo. I just want more energy on target than the 9 mm can deliver.

1 Like

You’re right, they backpedaled about a quarter of a mile trying to avoid shooting that guy. I disagree about caliber honestly. With modern ammunition they all pack a similar punch. All handguns have abysmal stopping power honestly, it’s best to use what you’re accurate with.

2 Likes

Basic physics says otherwise. Mass X Velocity Squared= Impact Energy.

It’s why in special ops we very quickly went back to the .45acp after repeated failures of the 9mm to stop bad guys.

There’s also the simply physiological difference of bigger holes cause a much more rapid drop in blood pressure than smaller holes.

Compared to rifle rounds all handguns are pretty puny but there is a substantial difference between the different handgun rounds.

1 Like

Reading up on the history of the military and their choice of handguns, it has differed. Non-specialized forces use what is standard issue, special forces have a little more leeway and have used different makes and models of the 9mm, 40 S&W, and the 45 ACP. Special Forces that do use the 45 ACP on certain deployments do so because it is slower and when used in conjunction with a silencer is quieter. I personally believe that proficiency and accuracy are primary and not so much dependency on a certain caliber. I personally like the 9mm because I can shoot it faster and I am more accurate with it. Out of curiosity, I found that the Athens PD uses and it is the Glock 22 (40 S&W) as their standard sidearm, supposedly the 40 S&W has more energy than the 45 ACP. The deceased in the Athen, GA shooting took multiple hits to the chest, got up and got to the officer which has me convinced there is no magic bullet. I have seen police shooting videos of suspects going down from 2 shots from a 9mm and there are situations where they don’t. So it all really depends on the person that is shot and if the shots fired from the officer find their lethal mark such as a vital organ or main artery.

2 Likes

Ok, we all agree that in the world of firearms handguns have pretty poor stopping power. The real differences comes down to the shooter and the one being shot. On the shooters end accuracy is what is going to stop the threat, if you can’t hit your target it doesn’t matter if it’s a 22lr or a 44 mag. On the target end there’s a whole range of things that can affect the outcome of the shot from adrenaline to drugs or alcohol.

Personally I would think you would bleed out faster from more shots on target than fewer but larger wounds (area hit depending of course.)

I’m pretty accurate with both my 45 subcompact and my mid sized 9mm. The difference of 11 rounds in the magazine is what makes me carry my 9mm. I choose more ammo carried vs a harder hit in order to curb other unknown variables such as multiple attackers.

Did i read correctly that officer was carrying with 40S&W? Regardless that’s more stopping power than a 9mm. I hope the officer recovers from this incident well.

We can go back and forth over what round is best to carry forever, there are benefits and drawbacks to all of them. I will maintain that you need to carry what you’re accurate with as your primary consideration though.

3 Likes

To the bolded that simply isn’t accurate. We went back to the .45acp strictly because of the better energy. A good many of us went to the .40 S&W as soon as it was authorized for the more manageable recoil and higher capacity.

Unless you’re shooting bug guns, or a pretty small framed person the difference in recoil between the .40 and 9mm and time to get back onto target between rounds is negligible unless you’re shooting in competition where the difference in winning and losing can easily be measured in hundredths of a second.

1 Like

Do you guys think all 5 of the initial rounds hit? Regardless of caliber that is still a lot of damage to take and still be able to get up and manhandle an armed officer.

That depends on the officers training, circumstance, and situation. “Stress fire” isn’t anything like calmly shooting at the range, but I’m sure you know that. In the military, we purposely got our heart rate up along with our breathing to mimic as close as possible conditions in combat. Police stress fire research has shown that in a fire fight, if an officer shot 15 rounds, 3-4 will hit.

1 Like

It looks to me as though they probably did but were scattered around the edges of the thorax not doing any significant damage to any major organs or blood vessels. From the amount of blood on his shirt I’m fairly sure at least four of the first five were hits.

1 Like

Not surprising as they are often shooting at considerable distance, distances far beyond the common self defense encounters.

1 Like