Honestly, different states and even counties would represent different costs for a self defense case. I’ve seen even in my own state, some cases where it was open and shut and others where there was a fight for several months. I have 5 lawyers, 2 judges, 1 ex-judge and 3 retired lawyers in my family and not a one could answer this accurately. The truth is that it ranges from judge to judge, district to district.
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The cost of defending something like this criminally can be very expensive. Once an attorney is on a case and it gets past the early stages, that attorney needs to stay til the end. I would easily say that the Rittenhouse Attorney fees, costs and expenses are going to go over 250k if it goes to trial. That includes self defense experts who will have to explain why he had no other choice.
The civil trial, will be similar. Same experts and questions but a preponderance of the evidence standard then beyond a reasonable doubt. This makes it easier for the plaintiff to win.
The key rule is that deadly force is always a last resort.
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I really wish CCA classes spent a lot more time on the use of deadly force, ran “what if” drills, and talked about the aftermath, even when it’s clear cut justified. Most aren’t Leo’s, and the CC doesn’t deputize us. Laws are different and you must be willing to give up everything to save your life, then the same to defend your decision. I hate when a new carrier goes looking for “injustices” to recitify. I guess they’re not that bad, but enough to think they’re not thinking through the gravity of what’s in their hands. This is great imput and support.
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Ordered. Thank you.
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I think it was in Concealed Carry Magazine
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Interesting. I’d like to think I’m at a 50%, but probably much lower, 25 to 30% maybe. I’d look for every way to avoid deadly force. Probably longer than would be safe.
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I recently took one of Legal Heat’s CCW classes so I could apply for a Utah non-resident permit (which requires an instructor that Utah has approved). The Legal Heat classes (usually offered at sporting goods stores like Sportsmen’s Warehouse) focus primarily on the legal aspects. There is no range component. They not only do the generic use of lethal force stuff, they put up the text of the laws from the relevant states and walk you through them. They do this for defense inside the home as well as outside. They make clear things like detached garages and other structures aren’t part of the home (for things like castle doctrine), and show you this in your state’s laws. It was surprisingly thorough in this area, though superficial in many others those in this forum consider important such as tactics and gun handling. But when it comes to legal specifics, this was the best treatment I’ve ever seen in an introductory class. (I don’t consider Ayoob’s classes introductory.)
The instructor was a retired FBI agent. He did a very good job in responding to questions from the Rambo-types, especially when it came to defense of property kinds of things where they were incredulous they couldn’t (or in some cases, can but probably shouldn’t) use their guns. He was well nuanced too. He repeatedly emphasized that you really don’t want to kill someone particularly over property. In his own home he has a line, the stairs leading to the bedrooms, that a burglar can’t cross. If they are downstairs and want to take his TV he isn’t going to engage them, that is an insurance problem. But the moment they start heading up the stairs, the have become threat to persons not property. Etc.
One of the reasons many classes (e.g., the NRA ones) don’t spend more time on the legal aspects is that instructors are not qualified (or authorized in the case of the NRA) to teach them (and face significant liability risk for doing so). Instead you must bring in a lawyer or law enforcement officer to do that. So the quality and quantity of the legal coverage is highly variable, and has to fit in a short lesson.
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Sounds like a good class. I live in Utah and it’s the only permit I have. My daughter recently took a CC Class also. They covered Deadly Force, but not enough IMO. Once you “Strap on” your whole life changes, especially if you ever draw. Too many ramifications not to really know when, where, or the what ifs. Thanks for your input.
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Invite them to dinner offer some drinks an maybe then a meaningful conversation can plant the seed of reality, good luck and God bless.
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From what I see, in some of my more than enthusiastic friends,it doesnt go away. I once or twice tried to communicate common sense to a few of my “Rambo” friends about keeping a better composure. What some dont understand is “Conceal Carry”,also means your mouth. CC is not a right to advertise publicly of “If I were there” or “Just give me a chance and I’ll…”.
So at times,I chose to separate myself from such outspoken Rambo’s.
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i was afraid of people in the army when they said they could kill someone and not think anything about it. I thought they would be the first ones to leave in a fire fight because they were trying to convince them selves they could shoot someone. I don’t know till the time comes if I can.
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I watched a video about Marine snipers during Viet Nam and the Gufl wars. They all pretty much agreed that they would think more of their fellow Marines they saved than those who they killed. And, another documentary, the officers in charge said that they choose only those who cherish live and see it as sacred… they don’t want to kill, but they will.
Those are the mindsets I want… tho’ I hope it never happens.
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When I took the Concealed handgun course, many years ago, our instructor was almost 100 percent in the “should you shoot and the aftermath”. In fact he was so good that halfway through I was questioning myself if I was really capable of carrying. He was very thorough and pointed as to what the results of a bad/quick decision could bring.
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There are two ways that new CWP holders are likely to react. BOLD and TIMID. And I think how they act is related to their personality more than anything else. Those that act like badassed were usually the extroverted no nothing types that don’t have a real concept of what they’re doing and probably didn’t pay much attention to the instruction they received and are now an ever greater danger to everyone around them than before they were armed. And the other type that are the more introverted personality that although they paid extreme attention to the classwork still feel unsure of themselves but over time and experience they will become very capable carriers. Of the two I would gladly take one of the latter (introvert) types as a backup than 10 of the former (extrovert) types in a SHTF scenario. Why, the Introvert is going to continue to train and learn and is someone you can trust. The Extrovert on the other hand feels he is already an expert, thinks he has all the answers, and considers himself a bonafied “James Bond” and his CWP is “his license to kill”. Just my humble opinion, based on over 21 years of Concealed Carry Experience in the great state of Florida.
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So… I’m a newbie. I think my father could’ve written this about me. No I don’t have a “Rambo” attitude. What I do have is a little more confidence in my ability to protect myself should I ever need too. I personally want to take the gray man approach as to blend in and not stand out or draw attention to myself. I will try to avoid all signs of trouble and not put myself in that position. If I do find myself in that position, and none of my family members are in danger, I will probably not even draw my gun. I am aware of the gravity of taking a life and want to avoid it at all costs. I am celebratory when, in today’s events, a man is able to protect himself from the people who wish to do him harm. I however would choose not to be in a situation I can avoid. So…you can stop worrying, I know the laws, I know how sacred life is. I have put off owning a gun for many years because I didn’t feel ready for the responsibility. With careful consideration and lots of thought I have decided to take the leap. I do not go into this blindly. I’ve said multiple times I will probably not carry but want to have that option.
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Welcome aboard @Lisa10. That is a very positive refreshing view.
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Welcome to the forum @Lisa10. When it comes to carrying, live within your comfort level, baby steps.
I’m teaching an all woman’s class next weekend Concealed Carry & Home Defense. All of the students just went out and bought their first firearm and actually will be firing them for the first time in class.
This is a great way to be introduced to firearms. Sure it will be exciting for them and for sure a Core Memory (From the Inside Out Movie). Find the same class from a Certified USCCA Instructor in your area, hit the “Training” button above.
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Welcome to the family. And thank you for sharing your thoughts
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welcome them to our community,train hard and stay safe. from Michigan 
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welcome them to our community,train hard and stay safe. from Michigan
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