Ok, heres the deal. I just ordered a Danial Defense DDM4 V7LW. Now I don’t know which direction to go on a scope. I already have a PDW for CQB and home defense so I have that covered. I want to be able to get some distance so should I go standard hunting scope or should I go red dot with magnifier?? Throw me some ideas please!
Realistically with a 16" tube you are going to be at the top end at around 500 yards with 55 - 62+gr boolits as it has a 7 twisted tube. It might could get to 600 but it would be on its last legs.
I would consider a 1 to 1.5 X 6 to 8X scope, my preference is always First Focal Plane (FFP) but if you are not familiar with them they can be “different” to learn as the reticle gets larger as you dial on the power as opposed to a Second Focal Plane SFP (Regular) scope where the reticle stays the same size and the image grows.
If you go FFP make SURE you get knobs to match your reticle otherwise you will have to build dope cards for both which is doable but MATH.
I guess the question is: How serious about the longer range capabilities do you want to get?
I would like to consistantly hit a 400 to 500 yd. target
Given your last comment I agree with Craig6, and it is the rout i took. I have a wide view 1x9 that gives me all the magnification i want for 300 to 500 yards, and yet when i dial it back i have a good field of view for closer targets and quick pick up.
When you say consistently do you mean minute of bug hole or minute of target? There is no magic to shooting 500 yards it’s mostly math and the capabilities of your platform, you can do it with irons and I highly recommend you learn how to do just that. The heavier the boolit the less it is affected by the wind but the more elevation you will need. Lets face it though a 62gr boolit is pretty light in a 10mph full value wind. At 500 yards with a nominal velocity of 2950 fps from a 16" tube with a 10 mph cross wind you will need 40" of correction which is not as bad as it sounds as 1 MOA = 1.047" @ 100 yards which means at 500 it measures 5.235 you need to dial or hold ~7.6MOA. I can do that in IPHY or Mils if you prefer.
The scope will bring you 6 - 8X closer to the target which will refine your point of aim but does bumpkus with regard to your accuracy.
I agree with @Craig6. Something variable power in the 6 to 8x range. I shoot a carbine with a 4x ACOG 500 is not too bad 600 is stretching it. The variable power seems to be the best of both worlds and allows a lot of flexibility for the platform
I thought about the ACOG but after just dropping $$$ I dont think that will be in the budget right now.
There are plenty of options that are more versatile and plenty reliable enough. I love mine but wouldn’t buy another one.
Tacticool over function. A Leupold VX-II in 2-7 covers a lot of bases for minimal $$$$. If you get into FFP it will be $1K plus for anything worth a dog. You can get in under $500 for a good optic in SFP. In full disclaimer I have mounted a $3K scope on a $900 rifle but I dare say my requirements are different than yours. In 1999 if you asked me to spend north of $2k on a rifle scope I would have said you were Bat $h!t crazy. In 2001 I had 4 scopes worth that much and more and I worked for a top shelf scope maker after I retired. It all depends on what you want to do with the stick and what the stick is capable of. If the best it can do at 500 yds is a 10" group a TP tube, duct tape and wire is all you need.
I’m really not trying to be disparaging but 500 and in is more about FOV and a fast reticle than the power of the scope. If you are trying to shoot bug holes at 500 and in then a 12 - 22X top end may be what you need providing it’s paper. I have a 6.5X 20 EFR Loopy scope that sits on a .22LR and I shoot it at 100 and 200 yards. My main precision long distance bolt gun has a 3.2 - 17X optic and I shoot it at 1 MILE… My belly benchrest big boomer rifle has a 5X25 optic on it and I shoot it to over 3000 yards, truth be told I can barely hold the bloody thing still at distance but it does allow me to put rounds on that steel at that distance.
Something else to consider is the reticle. Maybe @Craig6 has some insight. But I like the ACOG because of the ranging built into the reticle.( other optics offer this) I’ve never shot one but I really love the principles of the primary arms ACSS reticle.
I’m not trying to change the direction of your thread but it is something to consider when purchasing an optic
I think I am just going to go Holosun green dot with a magnifier. Hopefully that will get me where I want to go. Thanks for the imput guys
Well said. I can’t tell you how many shooters I’ve known think a 20 power variable setting will make their bullet hit 6” steel at longer distances >600 yards. They quickly realize they have only improved their ability to see their misses up close.
Don’t under value being able to see your misses with your optic… It can save dragging equipment to and from the truck…
With a scope you have to bring it to eye level and fire and with the red dot just place the dot and the shot. I would go red dot.
@Joseph_1970 I’m looking for optics on two new builds. My plans are to get MBUIS mounted first. They are hard to come bye at the moment. All the suppliers are on backorder.
I have a Vortex Diamondback 3-9 x40 on my current M4E1 with 16" barrel. I mounted the scope on a Burris PEPPR QD Mount. It isn’t very tacticool but it gets the job done at a good price point. The scope is less than 12" long and weighs 14.4 ounces.
I get grief from my marine sniper buddy at the range for using QD. It does have good repeatability which is important. He spends more on his optics than I do on my entire platform…
I very much prefer Scope over Listerine. Uh oh… wrong community!
But seriously, I am a fan of Vortex optics. The prices are usually better then most manufacturers and the optics quality and lifetime warranty are hard to beat.
@Joseph_1970, I agree with @MikeBKY about Vortex products. The less expensive scopes give one a lot of value for the money. They have a 1x6 and a 1x8 in the Strike Eagle line that, at 1x, can be used like a red dot for close targets. You can use the throw lever to bring up the magnification for more distant targets.
These lower power optics are great matches for the AR platform. Burris makes some good ones too. Hope this helps a little with your goals.
Hey Mike I’m laughing at the top post.
This is actually a really good time for scopes. It used to be really crappy junk for <$400 or $1000+ for anything decent. There is actually a ton of options now in the “budget” scope range from several manufacturers that are actually pretty good in that sub $1k range. Vortex has their strike eagle & PST2 lines which are kinda the benchmark in this range, Swampfox, Atibal, Riton are newer “up & coming” optics makers. Swampfox Optics has some LPVOs ranging from $280-550 and reviews out there basically have them punching above their weight.
On my 16" “do all” rifle (also a DD, v11) i ended up with a 1-8x LPVO (Burris XTR II 1-8x FFP, since discontinued but you can occasionally find leftovers for cheap) and have been happy with the choice. Pretty fast at 1x (but not as fast as a red dot) and the ability to zoom out to extended ranges. The only negative, IMO, with LPVOs is their weight. Most of the good ones weight in between 22-28oz, plus the mount you are carrying almost 2lbs extra on the rifle, thats like a 1/3 the weight of the rifle itself.
If close work is not much of a priority, something like a 2-7x, 3-9x can be pretty good at a significant weight savings. The trade-off is it will be slower at close range. These are usually cheaper than an LPVO too.
A red dot + magnifier is a good option too, but i don’t prefer them. I’m probably a weirdo in that regard, but the weight is almost the same as an LPVO (aka, heavy) and its either 1x or 3x, nothing in between or past that. You do get the option to take it off for when you dont need the magnifier (saving weight sometimes) and if you already have the red dot its some cost savings.
Hawke has some good scopes. Relatively cheap. On my AR-10 I use .308 and I am good to 700 yards plus with it.