My new 9mm EDC pistol

You might be the only other person I’ve encountered that recognizes this. I’ve never understood why the barrel lengths are determined from the muzzle to the breechface except for revolvers?

And if all the latest super short magnum hunting cartridges were compared with equal tube length from the case mouth to the muzzle, would shorter cartridge Vs the original still have an advantage??

1 Like

Isn’t that how it’s traditionally done with shotguns and rifles? The revolver’s barrel is a separate piece.

1 Like

Probably not. The usual test barrel is 4-5 inches. The threaded barrel on my Glock 43X is 4 inches and I believe that the threaded barrel I will order for my p365 is also 4 inches. At 12 - 15 feet, I do not believe the terrorist/criminal will brush off the 147 grn jhp with the famous Jet Lee smile and continue in for the kill. I have to say that the Super Vel 115 grn jhp gel test on youtube. It functioned through 4 layers of jean material. I don’t trust that a gunman will come in scantly dressed or that the attack will only happen during hot weather. How does a subsonic light jhp respond to heavy wool or stuffing? Forget any type of cheap body armor. I’ve trained myself over the last 50+ years to look for such things in my initial environment assessment at the onset of trouble.
I was shooting my Grandfather’s WWI Colt 45 at the age of 8. I was born in 1953 and spent my entire formative years preparing for going to Vietnam. My best buddy’s dad was a Major in the Green Berets. He was sent home twice in body casts. We sat at his feet and listened intently because even he knew that his son and I were going due to our school performances and when you are told by your teachers 4-12th grade that you were gonna be sent to Vietnam and you were gonna die, you believed them. When your “Hero” is sitting in a body cast talking to you about what it takes to survive Vietnam because even he knows you are on your way - you believe what you hear. I learned a great deal about what to expect in a fire fight and one of the skills was instantaneous situational awareness. Another was point/instinct shooting even with bull’s-eye shooting skills. The vast majority of kill shots were/are made via point/instinct shooting skills rather than from an ambush position where one is all set to go with proper grip, stance, sight alignment, trigger control, breathing technique, heart rate monitoring/control, environmental awareness, etc … He drilled us on shot placement not on bullet weights and caliber choices. That was when I was a kid. I learned a great deal more from the pros during my Naval Security Group days and by an FBI “wise guy” in my adult years.
My SOCOM acquaintances (I was never a trained operator) but I was around so many that I learned a lot. My mentor while on active duty was a Navy SEAL Sr. Chief who was the intel officer and hitter on the USS Pueblo when it was captured by the North Koreans. He was crippled from the torture but the Navy considered him “the right stuff” and kept him enlisted. I was certainly a very fortunate sailor.


And we used to believe that the Earth was stationary and everything else revolves around us.

I just asked if barrel length was measured from the case mouth would a short magnum really have a velocity advantage? Because it’s got more distance in the tube for propellant gases to push, for the same “barrel length”

I’d like to see a comparison done this way.

If I am on the same page here, I hunted both in the southeast and out here with the 300WSM and it did everything the 300 magnum would do on game without the extra case length with the only other difference being in the chamber length. I also used the Tika lite rifle and had no issues shooting the 300WSM.

1 Like

This has been an interesting post to watch. My first elk rifle was a Ruger paddle stock hunter in .338 win mag, the rifle had plenty of strength for the round, the shooter however needed to be a bit bigger, My carry in the field hunting rifle is now a .308. The .338 in that format just hit me too hard and I was forced to admit it was not a good fit for me, even though it was a fine elk cartridge, and the .308 would have it’s limitations. I opted for what I knew I could master and carry in the field, and as always, knowing the envelope for my selection was key.

I’ve smiled reading the posts, because it occurred to me I was watching a debate between thought out decisions and positions, when so much of what I read elsewhere is written in ignorance and arrogance.

So I just wanted to say this one has been fun to watch.

1 Like

Thanks. I honestly believe that it is more the person’s shooting abilities including cognition than it is the caliber/round used. The Mossad, while I was serving, carried, as their EDC, the Beretta Bobcat with what we now call the Stinger 22 round. Power is important but confidence of knowing is critical. There is a fine line between arrogance and confidence of knowing. The real warriors hate arrogance cause it gets them and their teammates killed. That Sr. Chief Navy Seal drilled that home in my training and I have applied it throughout my life.

As a change of topic, here are my suppressed pistols. The 9mm included the p365 and the 43X. The 22 lr includes the Walther ppk/s, the Browning Buckmark, the Sig p322 (a whole lot of pistol and a whole lot of fun - check it out). The p365 will have the 4" True Precision threaded barrel either in gold or in black. Copper is an alternative color as well.

Anyone have any experience with the Sig p322? It will hold up to many 1000s of rounds and Sig Sauer thought of everything when they put this lil beauty on the bench. The barrel being pressed into the frame means a consistency of shots by the pistol that will outperform the best of shooters. I have been waiting all my life for a high capacity 22 pistol and this Sig is not disappointing. It is a southpaw’s dream come true as well.

Can’t wait for the ATF to clear the Odessa 9. Except for the baffle lines, it will have the same diameter and the same length as the Silencerco Sparrow in the pic. I can also use it with the .22 pistols. The length of the Odessa with all 10 baffles is only 8.6 inches. I will use between 5 to 7 baffles depending on the ammo.

My plans for the 9mms is the p365 for primarily daytime use and pocket carry while the 43x with the Laser Max guide rod laser, Ameriglo night sights, 15 round Shield Arms metal mags and metal mag release for low light applications. The suppressor will be discretionary with either pistol. I am equally proficient with either pistol so trigger and grip memory is not an issue. The same applies with the .22s. I have always loved the challenges of pistol and instinct/point shooting. I was able to place 2 shots in the heart (2 inch group) and one at the bridge of the nose in 3 seconds or less at 50 meters back in the day. Now, you may hear “INCOMING” being screamed out.

The 43X is getting a metal mag well installed soon. An aftermarket item for $70 that is installed at home. It’s pretty cool and looks awesome and can be had in multiple colors. I’ll go for grey or black. Grey will match the slide and Double D barrel and thread protector. I failed to mention that the 43X and the p365 share the same holsters. Heck, I might just carry the p365 in my pocket or at the 8 o’clock position IWB and the suppressed 43X in the shoulder holster. I’m still working out the kinks with the location of the rocket propelled grenades and the MP5. You haven’t been to my church - have ya?!?

We got the hermeneutics down pretty much. It’s the apologetics that needs some polishing. Especially to the survivors. If you ain’t saved before you enter, you’ll be begging for baptism before you leave…JUST KIDDING, JUST KIDDING.

Or at least a place to hide.


My opinion is that if one is going to get into the weeds on the minutia of which round, the answer is Federal HST

Or at least something on docgkr’s list

The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

Got a link for this? I searched and found another forum. Interesting reading there too. Thanks!

I’d also like to see the list of runner ups and the list of not even close. Then there is probably a list of not tested.

Nice pieces of hardware brother @Robert1304 :+1::+1:

1 Like

Some docgkr in his natural habitat

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
Remington Golden Saber bonded 124 gr +P JHP (GSB9MMD)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester 124 gr +P bonded JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P PT
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Speer G2 147 gr PT
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Speer Gold Dot 165 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (RA40B/Q4355/S40SWPDB1)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Hornady Critical Duty 220 gr +P JHP
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

Also my favorite

“Prdator–much like with the 124 gr GD, both the standard pressure and +P 124 gr HST work, the +P is a just a bit better for LE duty use and neither are as good as the 147 gr HST. And before you ask, the 147 gr +P HST is not quite as ideal as the standard pressure 147 gr HST.”

Thanks! I’ll check it out later. Need to make use of the remaining daylight. Are there lists of not tested? Lists of ones that didn’t make the grade and why?

1 Like

Not that I am aware of. He has a lot of content out there and I have seen pockets here and there of things that didn’t test well but I don’t know of that being consolidated

1 Like

I concur!

I appreciate a list of this works. But I’m probably more curious about these aren’t as good and here’s why…


You are so right. It really boils down to going with your gut on personal carry. Having any “real world” experience with a certain caliber, bullet type, bullet weight and power is a real bonus.

It can be a real brain teaser for someone without any experience in the violent world of self-preservation to come to a comfortable piece of mind. I prefer to “KISS” this problem by settling on a “safe” choice. Too many service people in military and law enforcement have voiced knowledgeable opinions on too light a projectile or too powerful a projectile for civilian use for one to not listen and consider the needs for their everyday life style. Mine calls for a GOOD 147 grn jhp traveling at standard to subsonic speeds. It is not only my opinion that matters here but a shared opinion of others with “real world” experiences. DON’T BUY A GUN UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO BECOME AS PROFICIENT AND EFFICIENT AS YOU, PERSONALLY, CAN BE WITH THAT GUN!!! Too much is riding on the consequences not to be.

It is more to do with the person rather than the bullet used to end a gun battle or eliminate a clear and present danger. That person’s ability to deliver an accurate shot in a high stress, unplanned environment is GREATLY enhanced by practice, practice, practice. Sending a bullet down range is not the same thing as throwing a punch especially in a populated environment. What do you know about situational and environmental awareness? What do you know about the power of observation to notice such things as body armor, body language, emotions and intents shown through the eyes? What do you know about the differences between “arrogance” and the “confidence of knowing”, the dangers with the ignorance that is ALWAYS generated by arrogance and how to defeat arrogant people?

To help answer the all too pressing question of which round to choose to use, determine your “normal” environment and avoid what isn’t. I don’t frequent strip clubs or bars (any more), I don’t park in lonely inner city parking lots with poor lighting. I don’t enter any environment without a “matter of factness” instant search for possible threats (and I am not paranoid). My next outing is not on a Special Operations raid and my job is not law enforcement. Speaking of such, have you talked to a cop about the ammo most carried by police in your area? That can be helpful info for liability issues if nothing else. When was the last time you attended a training class or watched videos on related subjects? How about range time with your selected ammo? Do you hang out with arrogant people, nut jobs and Rambo wanna bees (think phonetically - my two fingers is terrabol spleller) or with competent sportsmen and enthusiasts?

The answer is: YES!!! You should try out every type of round for your caliber and your specific firearm. Will your firearm process a rock (any ammo) loaded up like my Ruger Security 9 or is it an ammo queen that experiences Fail To Feed (FTF) and Fail To Eject (FTE) with specific ammo. You gotta know such things about your pistola. Would you feel better with a revolver vs a semi auto (called a pistol)? You eliminate a lot of troubles if you stick with a revolver. The typical firefight in typical America is within 13 feet with 2.3 shots fired. Do you really want to fire a +p+ round out of a S&W airweight belly gun or a super small and light clip fed beast? My Kahr CT380 is a complete joy to shoot while a Walther all metal PP, PPK, PPK/S in 380 is incredibly painful to shoot standard velocity ammo.

Do you want to become proficient and comfortable with a p365 sized pistol or with a CZ SP01 Tactical that is equivalent to stuffing a sweet potato into a speedo. Do you need a “duty” weapon or a concealed carry weapon (CCW). Is your grip strength suitable for a S&W 500 or more for a S&W M&P Compact 22. Your assailant will regret (if still alive) the encounter with either in competent hands. They don’t call em “Stingers” for nuttin. Do you want to be able to place a round in an eye intentionally or are you happy if a round strikes an attacker anywhere and heaven help the bystander? Do you want the round to mangle flesh and cause the target to explode from the force of impact or are you happy to just end the aggression? I love the story of the older doctor entering his place of employment after being confronted by an armed robber in the parking deck. He presented Charlie, the security officer, with the assailant’s weapon, wallet… and his pants. Giving Charlie the man’s physical characteristics was of less importance. The Doctor operated from the “confidence of knowing” with his Kimber Pro Carry II and a round was not fired.

I love you, bye bye

Do you understand the relationship between brain activity and group size? Are you knowledgeable on keeping all areas of concern simple in order to place a rapid response accurately? Such as, anything that slows down your response time. i.e. grip structure (finger groves, grip length and dangling pinkies, obstructions to target acquisition such as optics or extras mounted on your firearm or remembering the 13 steps to an accurately placed shot (.2 seconds matter in a gun fight)? Do you understand the differences between point/instinct shooting and bullseye shooting? Do you understand the importance of trusting instincts even with the presence of professional training? It is equivalent to a fighter pilot relying on his/her fire control computer that tracks 24 targets, prioritizes threats, fires 12 missiles while simultaneously tracking and prioritizing the next 12 and deciding to take the system off line and operate manually. Your instincts are that good if developed.